Calligraphy Biz Corner

21. 3 Ways to Market Your Calligraphy Business without Social Media with Marie of Maiden September

• Alane Gianetti, Shaochen Wu • Season 1 • Episode 22

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We’re thrilled to welcome Marie Coleman-Johns, calligrapher, engraving artist, and founder of Maiden September, to this episode of Calligraphy Biz Corner! Marie specializes in live event personalization for brand activations and corporate events and has over a decade of corporate marketing experience. From mastering SEO strategies to networking and landing brand partnerships, Marie provides actionable tips and insights that you may not already be using to help you grow your creative business and get clients.

In this episode, Marie takes us through her inspiring journey to becoming a full-time calligrapher and highlights the key strategies that helped her scale her business outside of social media. Whether you're curious about improving your visibility online, growing your professional network, or pitching your services to brands, this episode is packed with advice tailored to creative entrepreneurs. Marie also gives us a sneak peek at her upcoming course, Beyond the Nib, which dives deep into marketing and business development specifically for calligraphers.

If you’ve been wondering how to elevate your brand, find clients, or diversify your marketing strategies, this episode is for you! Marie’s advice is not only practical but also inspiring for creatives looking to grow their businesses with confidence. Grab a notebook—this episode is full of marketing tools, tips, and strategies you’ll want to implement right away!

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alane_3_11-12-2024_130224:

Hello and welcome back to Calligraphy Biz Corner. I'm Elaine, and today we have a guest who is also a fellow calligrapher, friend of ours, Marie of Made in September. Marie Coleman Jones is a calligraphy and engraving artist specializing in live event personalization for brand activations and corporate events. She partners with brands and agencies to create memorable on site experiences You experiences by customizing products and giveaway items, adding a personal touch that drives impact and brand loyalty for guests. Before we jump into today's episode, we wanted to give a shout out to our latest Buy Me A Coffee supporter, Becky of Curvy Q Studio. Becky says, I love this podcast. Thanks for sharing and supporting all of us. Thank you, Becky, for your support. And if you want to support the show, then you can head over to the support our show link in the show notes to buy us a coffee.

shaochen--she-her-_3_11-12-2024_110224:

thank you so much, Becky. And we are so excited to share this conversation with Marie. We've both been following her journey over the past couple years. I believe we got connected back in 2020 during the pandemic. And Marie was actually an early student of mine in the Pro Wedding Calligrapher course. And it's super cool to see that she is now starting her own course called Beyond the Nib, which is an online Which is a marketing and business course for calligraphers and live event artists. And she's launching that in January. So we obviously had to get on the podcast and get the first scoop from her about the course. And she talks about marketing strategies outside of just social media, which I absolutely love. And that's what we thought we would focus on in today's. Episode discussion. So we're going to be talking about strategies, like SEO networking, and even getting brand sponsorships for calligraphers and what that looks like. I feel like that's just not discussed enough.

alane_3_11-12-2024_130224:

Yeah. She has such an interesting perspective because of her marketing background and also being like a social media OG when she was like, I've been doing this for people since 2010. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you were its infancy.

shaochen--she-her-_3_11-12-2024_110224:

if social media was going to stick around at that point. If social media marketing was like really a job at that point, you know, that's

alane_3_11-12-2024_130224:

But I also love that the conversation was like, not focused on social media at all. Like, I don't even think that we talked about marketing on Instagram or Tik TOK once, which is kind of refreshing. Cause I feel like that's what you hear a lot about. We also heard more about her journey of transitioning into full time, which was really inspiring. And I think there'll be some really good takeaways for anybody who just. It's looking for any sort of transition, you know, going through any sort of transition in their business. But my personal favorite takeaway from our conversation was just the idea of always making sure that we are putting ourselves into the shoes of our ideal client. Whether that's through like the keywords that we're using as part of our SEO strategy whether it's in our website copy or on social posts or in pitch decks. I just think it's really important to not only know who you're targeting, which I feel like there is a lot of talk around that, but it's also equally as important to have a really good understanding of what they're thinking and how they're thinking it so that you can actually. Start talking to them and making sure that they are actually finding you wherever it is that you are showing up as part of your marketing strategy. Great.

shaochen--she-her-_3_11-12-2024_110224:

a good reminder because the words that we use to describe ourselves are often. Different than the words that our clients would use to look for us. I think that my main takeaway from today's conversation is that there truly are so many different ways that you can grow your business outside of social media. And that was just such a good reminder to talk through some of those different strategies. Like I personally, when I think about it, I also grew my business mostly through referral marketing, reaching out to friends and family, getting to know. The friends of their friends. And of course through wedding planners and other wedding vendors, the most important thing is that you have some kind of marketing strategy and that you lean into the marketing methods and channels that work for you, rather than trying to do all of the things that are possible with marketing, because that's a surefire way to burn yourself out. And so I think our hope with this episode is that. This kind of expands your mind to what you could potentially be doing and helps you maybe like create a marketing strategies that works well to your strengths. And then of course, if you're interested in learning and diving even deeper into those different marketing strategies, you can sign up for Marie's course for her wait list. Let's go ahead and turn the conversation over to Marie.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Welcome Marie to Calligraphy Biz Corner. Thank you so much for joining us today. This feels like such a full circle moment. Cause I feel like we connected back in like 2020, 2021 during the pandemic. I think through Xiao Chen. So to have you on the podcast today to talk about your business journey and all of the exciting things that are going on is. Really exciting for us. So can you just start by telling our listeners and anyone who doesn't already know you a bit about yourself and your business?

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I totally agree. This is a total full circle moment. It's so great to like connect with you guys again. Yeah, so my name is Marie Coleman Johns. I am the owner of Maiden September. It's probably how you know me from Instagram. And I am a modern calligrapher and an engraving artist. And let's see, I, I'm the creator of the Calligrapher's Ratebook Template and I am getting ready to launch my very first marketing and business course tailored to calligraphers and live events artists called Beyond the Nib. So I'm really excited to be here with you guys.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yay. We're so excited to have you here and to have another calligrapher educator. Join us. Of course. Before we talk about marketing strategies and about your new course, we wanted to celebrate that. You also went full time with your calligraphy business in May. Right. Yay.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yes, that's right. Yeah, it's been a long time coming. It's definitely been something that's been on my heart for a while. So I'm excited to finally be a full time.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yeah, that's huge. And I know a lot of our listeners are not sure exactly where this calligraphy journey is taking them, but thinking about full time as a possibility, or maybe they already know that that's what they're working towards. So I was curious if you have any, like, insights from your journey that you would want to share with them.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, well, I think everyone's journey and path is going to look different, and there is no one set way of doing things. For me, it was kind of, preparing a couple different ways. But really the one thing that kind of was the catalyst for me taking this leap was also the thing that gave me the confidence to do it. So in my previous role in my full time job I was on a team where we were very resource strapped and we had a lot of demand on us. And over time that really started to take a toll on my health, both mentally and physically. And it just got to a point where You know, I just was like this. This isn't right. This doesn't sit right with me that like work is, you know, consuming so much of my life. And is having a negative impact on me. And so I started talking to my husband about like, what, what would it look like? And what would we need to do in order for me to go full time in my business? My husband is also self employed. And so we were doing, we were getting our benefits through my employer. So one of the biggest hurdles that we would have to tackle was health insurance since we're based here in the U. S. Um, Um, And so fortunately, we were able to find a really good plan through the ACA, the Affordable Care Act, and we worked with a healthcare broker that we found on healthcare. gov, and that person really helped me sort of navigate that whole process. I felt just really at ease once we had gotten that piece of the puzzle taken care of. And from there, everything else sort of just fell into place. But as I mentioned, like, you know, work was really stressful for me. But at the same time, being in that role showed me just how capable I am. So I was a first time people leader. I had a team relying on me and just being in that role was kind of like a sink or swim moment, especially with all the, just the challenges that our team had. It was a sink or swim moment. And I started seeing myself. You know, handling difficult situations with like a level of resourcefulness that I hadn't seen from myself before. So it gave me that confidence that like I can rely on myself to figure things out, just like I figured out the health care part and figured out things, you know, for for my team. If I could handle that job, I could handle running my business full time. And so that really gave me the confidence to take that leap. And then also because I had been in business since 2018 um, and I really hadn't been taking much of a salary for myself through my business. So because we had that sort of cushion built up, it just felt like I had a good safety net to, to make that leap. So a lot of different factors at play. And certainly, like I said, my journey is not the same as everyone else's. But those were the factors that kind of aligned that, you know, made it so that I felt prepared to leave and go full time in my business.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, I love that. First off, congratulations on taking that leap. That's so exciting. Three things stood out to me as you were talking that I think can still be applicable to anybody wherever they are at their journey. And the first is that literally everything is figureoutable. Like

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yes.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

it seems like a hurdle. It can seem scary. It might take a little extra work or, you know, even maybe a little extra resources, whether it's time or money, but like you can figure everything out if it's really what you want to do. The second thing that I took away was that we all have skills that are translatable to our business. So you're never starting a hundred percent from scratch. Like you already know things you already know how to do things and you can bring that with you into whatever your next venture is. And then the third thing was just that you were very strategic with like having a game plan and making sure that you were. Feeling secure while you were taking a risky leap. I can relate to that as well. Cause that was kind of the same strategy that I did when I was going full time. You know, I had had my business for about two and a half years while working full time. And I was just kind of stashing that cash that was coming in. I was either investing it back into the business or putting it away into a savings account. And then that way, like when I quit, you know, I had said like, I want about six months to So that way if absolutely nothing happens over the next six months, I'm still okay. And there's not that financial strain on the business in order to provide for myself. So I think all of those three things are really helpful for anybody to hear, regardless of what stage they're in.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Absolutely. And everything you touched on, I wholeheartedly agree with, like, that definitely having that safety net, it goes a long way in, in terms of making you feel comfortable. And like, you know, am I making the same in my business as I was in my full time job? No. But I, we feel very comfortable with like where we're at and just, again, yeah, having that safety net really, it It takes a lot of that stress and pressure off of you.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yeah. It's so cool to have been following each other's journeys for so many years and now seeing like this new evolution of your business. And I feel like I got really caught up on your business and what you were doing when you sent this newsletter earlier this year about how you were working full time while you were working full time. You were growing your business without having to actively market your business. And you mentioned that you booked 37 engraving events without having to post on social media or send any newsletter. So, of course, I was intrigued and I was like, wait, you have to share how you did this with our listeners. So I would love to kick off if you can share just like an overview of the strategies that you use before we kind of dive into each one of them.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, yeah, I was when I went back and looked at the numbers myself, I was pretty like surprised and pleasantly surprised, of course. But yeah, so last year, as I mentioned, I had started this role as a people leader in my job. It was really demanding. And so um, I really just did not have the energy to put into like actively marketing my business. But in the beginning of the year I had invested in an SEO course. And so I do credit that a lot for helping me sort of do sort of reactive or passive marketing where I didn't really have to do a ton in order to start getting those business leads. The other thing is that I have been working in the social media industry since 2010. I consider myself like a social media dinosaur. Like I was there before Instagram and I've done it at an enterprise level since 2010. So this is going to sound almost like counterintuitive, but social media is not the end all be all for a lot of small business owners. And I, I, I picked up on that pretty quickly, like, you know, in my business and I still like, I like, I want to create content because I feel like creating the content because I want to create it and not because I think like, oh, this is the thing that's going to get me, you know, a ton of leads. I mean, the reality is. Do people book, you know, clients and you know, wedding clients or live event clients from Instagram or social media? Yes. But I looked at the data through my CRM and other channels and saw that, like, it's not the primary driver for my business leads. And so why am I putting so much energy into growing that or also in my email newsletter, like I love doing the email newsletter, but I just was not in a position last year where I could just be turning it out like, you know, every week or every other week. So so yeah, just kind of focused on what I could do passively. That would like and so I was really excited about that. I knew that it would help me not be burnt out so that I had the energy to actually go and do those jobs during my non business hours. My non full time job hours. So yeah, focusing on SEO and and, and just getting that kind of set up was really a game changer for me.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

That's awesome. So I want to dive in a little bit into SEO to start. Cause we've gotten. Some overview of SEO strategies from previous guests on the podcast, like Kara of the Kara report and Susie of Lawson house. But we would love to know more specifically for calligraphers. Are there SEO strategies that you can share that have worked really well for you as a calligrapher?

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. So I will first start off by saying I'm not an SEO expert. Like, just as I mentioned, I bought an SEO course because I needed something to help me. I knew that this was A worthwhile investment, and I knew that there was a lot I didn't know. But the, there's actually three things that I would credit three or actually four things that I would credit that have really helped me with my website with my SEO. So the 1st is Just have your geographical location at your H1 header on your website. I'll see like other calligraphers websites and they'll have like, you know, something really cutesy or pretty and nice up there, but it doesn't necessarily say what you do and where you do it. And you have to think like your customer, think like your client. Is your client, if your client doesn't know anything about you, they don't even know you exist, what are they typing into Google? They're typing in calligrapher near me, or they're typing in engraving artists near me or live event artists near me. If you don't have that near me part, meaning like where you are located, then Google is not going to know to show your website in the top first page results. Because we all know you got to be on the first page or nobody's going to see you. So that's the first thing is like just having in the H one header, which is like that. big text that you have like at the very top of your website. That's your H1 header. So making sure that you have your location or the, you know, whatever market that you are, you know, promoting your business in. The second thing is that having enough text on your website. Specifically, like on your homepage and probably also like your services page my understanding is that there's like a recommendation of at least 600 words on, you know, those key web pages and landing pages. So your homepage for sure, because that's where, you know, People are typically going to land. And so a lot of people will have like a lot of beautiful photos and that's great. But again, Google is looking for information that it can use to return the results, meaning the web pages that it's going to show to the user. So again, putting yourself in the position of your customer, your client. What kind of information does Google need in order to show your page, hopefully on page one of those results on the way that you find that those keywords is basically by doing keyword research. So the third tip is keyword research. There's a website called S. E. M. Rush, which I'm sure your previous guests have probably mentioned before. It has free components, although a lot of those free components are starting to become more and more part of their paid subscription. But it really is helpful. for just doing research about keyword terms for for your business and also for your market. It's really worth it just spending some time and kind of learning how to do that. And I, I am a big proponent of like YouTube University. If I don't know how to do something, go figure, roll up your sleeves and go figure out how to do it. And there are a million YouTube videos out there. And like I said, courses out there that can teach you how to do these things if you want to DIY it. And you know, nothing is ever going to take the place of like an actual SEO expert. So if you want to DIY it for a little bit just to get you into a good, you know, good position and then later on when you're ready, invest in like an SEO expert who can actually, you know, audit your site and make those copywriting changes and, and other kind of design changes. That's certainly that's something that I'm actually going to be doing in 2025 for my business because I really see the value of investing in my SEO.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Well, cause you're starting to see the return on your investment of just being able to DIY it, or maybe investing in a course and it's like, wow, if it's worked like this already, then like. How much better can it work if I really get the expert now to come in and take what I've done and just like Magnify it the one thing that really stood out to me because I feel like shout out and I are also going through this with this podcast we're constantly now thinking like What is somebody actually googling like how should we be titling pages things like that? Like you said your home page heading Because it is really easy for us to just want to like, think of that cute title, like you said, or, you know, a fun play on words with calligraphy and what we do. But it's like, nobody's going to actually be searching for that. So for me, like the biggest tip that I keep hearing, that's like very forefront of mind. So I just wanted to highlight it for others as well. If it's helpful is to put yourself in the shoes of your ideal client consumer and think about what it is that they are going and typing into Google and then bring that into your. SEO strategy.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yeah.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

right. And that should be a philosophy of yours through all aspects of your business. If you're posting on social media, thinking about your target audience, I am as guilty of doing this as everyone else, but I create so much content for other calligraphers and other artists, and I'm not necessarily Speaking to my ideal client. And so finding ways to understand who your client is and then like you said, you know, kind of putting yourself in their shoes, thinking like them, what words would they use? What are they looking for? How do they want to see you represented in your online presence? All those things are going to help you be more marketable. So that way you can passively start receiving leads instead of having to proactively create all this content and be active in on this channel and that channel.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

I can definitely personally attest to what you were just sharing about having like your services and location as your main h1 tagline because just a quick story. I shared this with my newsletter too. I typically get a lot of my clients through referrals from planners and things like that. And so I hadn't been paying a lot of attention to my SEO. And I realized that I was on like page 11, which is like so embarrassing. And it wasn't even my homepage. It was like my live event services page. And so I panicked but one of the main things that I did was actually change some of the text to be like Shao Chen is a Denver based calligrapher specializing in XYZ like literally just like how someone was searched because I think before it was like adding the hand letter touch to your, you know, like nobody's going out there being like, I need a hand letter touch.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yes.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

researching like Denver calligrapher and so I put in my newsletter, make sure your keywords are next to each other. So don't put like Shouchen is based in Denver and then in a separate sentence or later on in your page, be like, you know, monstera gold provides calligraphy services for weddings and special events or whatever you want. Denver calligrapher, like services, like those all next to each other in the same phrase, because that's what people are searching for. And that's one thing I learned about keywords is like, you have to be really specific. Like it has to be that specific keyword that people are looking for and not something similar.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yes. Yeah, that's a really great point. There, there's something called boolean search and not that anybody needs to like have that memorized, but that basically talks about like the proximity of those keywords and the further the distance between those keywords. As you, as you just pointed out, like the harder it is for Google to serve up your page to the right person. So that's a really great point.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

yeah. And I was going to ask you, are you willing to share what the course was that you took in case anybody's interested?

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, it's um, Sarah does SEO and it's Sarah without an H. She specializes in wedding vendors. And so her primary focus is wedding vendors. And at the time, I was already moving towards doing live events. But I had talked to some other calligraphers who had taken her course and they said it was really valuable. And so there were definitely things where I had to, like, apply them with a live event artist lens as opposed to, like, a wedding vendor lens. So I think if you can kind of figure those things out, you know, like when she's talking about, you know like you said, Denver, you know, wedding calligrapher. Okay. Well, instead it would be Denver. Yeah. You know engraving artist or live events artist or something like that. So, but it's a really great course. She does an excellent job of like breaking everything down really easy to understand. And then she also does, I'm pretty sure they're like monthly, like office hours. I get emails from her all the time office hours where you can drop in. And if you have any questions and, and this is like for, you know, For lifetime. So like it doesn't have to be like right when you buy her course. You can just drop into office hours whenever you're, it's convenient for you.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

That's good to know. I've heard of her course and I've heard other calligraphers recommend it too. So it's good to know it's that one. And another strategy around marketing that I see you post about on stories and things like that is going to networking events. So I want to switch gears and talk a little bit about that strategy.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, so I have to start by saying that I have been going to networking events since I was a junior or senior in college, because my very first internship I worked for, I worked for a really small PR firm. I was employee number three. That's how small this was. And they were, and it was like in Rockville, Maryland, just a tiny little PR firm. And so, Getting out to networking events is literally how we did business development. And so they would send me out there by myself, like to, you know, these chamber of commerce you know, happy hours and things like that. And so I really, another like quote, unquote, sink or swim moment. That was kind of how I cut my teeth going to networking events. Now I have the benefit of being an extrovert. Like I don't mind walking into a room full of strangers. I don't know. Cause I, I know, like, I don't know. Somebody will talk to me. Somebody will introduce themselves to me. And there's a lot of people there who, you know, haven't probably been or don't don't know people there. So I knew I was not by myself in that. And so I've taken that same approach with doing going to networking events for my business. So I go to like some chamber events, but also I will just look for things like on Eventbrite or Meetup I'm in the Philadelphia metropolitan market, so there's just tons of like business and industry events that are happening, hospitality industry, restaurant industry, obviously like retail, things like that, and a lot of major brands and companies will also host conferences here as I'm sure they do in other big cities as well. So just taking into account that like there's all these, there's just like a wealth of events out there. And I don't really see like a lot of other calligraphers and artists talking about you know, going to any of these events and probably just because People didn't realize that it was like a thing, but it's worked out really well for me. So I went to a couple over the summer. There was one where I went to a luncheon that was focused on like guest experience for hospitality and restaurant. Businesses and vendors. And even though that was not like my niche, that's not necessarily like my target in terms of my business. It was a really great panel session and I ended up meeting a lot of people there. I met the events manager for a big restaurant here that's actually connected to the convention center in Philadelphia. And we met up for lunch after the, the networking event. And then she, first she wanted to do two events, then she wanted to do four. And now she wants to do six events. So Yeah, so I've already got stuff on the books for 2025, which is really great. So, you know, like, and is every event going to be something where you, you know, pull in a client who wants to book six events? No, but you know, over time, you start going to those events, you kind of learn, like, what's worth your time, what's interesting, and who, you know, who might be there, that's Um, and they're fun and also just if you if if going to a networking event is a little bit like intimidating or scary. My biggest piece of advice is contact the whoever is hosting it. Whoever the organizer is for that event. Tell them This is, you want to go to this event, it's your first time, you don't know anyone, and ask them if they can make introductions for you. Tell them about your business, and then ask them if they can make introductions for you there. And I guarantee they will overwhelmingly say yes, because the whole point of networking events is to connect people and to introduce them. So if you go to the organizer, these are people who literally love introducing and connecting people. And then when you get there and you tell people, you know, you're a calligrapher or you're a live event artist, like, watch their minds blow. Like, people think it is the coolest thing in the world. And I, it is, I think it's the coolest thing in the world. But when you tell them, like, you know, in my, in my case you know, I go to live events and I personalize branded giveaways or products and things like that on behalf of clients and corporate clients and brands like that. They're like, wait, what, what do you do? That's so cool. They, you know, it's just, and then they start thinking like, oh, you know, my company does da, da, da, da, da, my, you know, I have a client that does XYZ and they start thinking about you and you are creating an indelible impact that I don't necessarily think you, you get when you're doing things just online.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

I have like kind of a two part question for you as a follow up to all this. So my first question is, do you try to set yourself like a certain quota of events that you want to attend for either like each month or each quarter? Or is it just kind of like when things come up that strike your interest? And then the second part of that is like, how do you decide which events Maybe worth your time. Like, like you said before, we know that maybe not everyone, you're going to walk away with a client who wants six jobs, but what are you looking for when you are kind of sorting through like Eventbrite or wherever, looking through what kind of networking events are happening? Like, Oh, I think this one sounds like it could be a good fit.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

so for the first part of the question, a little bit of both. So I do generally like to go at least once a month to an event. It doesn't always work out, especially if there's not something that I think is really interesting. But generally speaking, I like to go to at least one a month. I have a big one coming up at the end of November that I'm really excited about going to. But I would just say, like, if you're starting off, just go to one. You don't have to, like, necessarily set a goal. Go to one, but don't make it that only one that you go to, you know. So if you're like, okay, that was really draining for me, take a little break. And then, you know, six weeks, eight weeks later, whatever, maybe once a quarter, you know, go to another one. In terms of, like, what I look for. Well, first off it is very hard to get people to go to a networking event that doesn't have food and preferably booze. I'm just keeping it real, even at like a chamber of commerce meeting. Like there's always like, you know, charcuterie and some like beer and wine. And so that tells you, okay, people are going to go because you're feeding people. Secondly, is if there is like a panel or like a Q and a, where they might have like a special guest. Usually those are pretty well attended. So you're looking for events that We'll probably have a good attendance there. It doesn't necessarily have to be like 100 people or whatever, but you just want to make sure that it's like, you know, you're not walking into a room with like 5 people there. The Other thing is that when I say Chamber of Commerce, literally there are Chambers of Commerce for cities. for states, for counties, and I live in a tri state area, so think about those three times three. That's like nine different chambers of commerce that I could probably go to. You don't need to go to all of them, and you certainly don't need to belong to all of them, but just, again, kind of figure out, like, which one has a really active group, and the best way of figuring that out is, like, going to, you know, an event for this chamber and that chamber and maybe a third one and kind of seeing, okay, which one has the best attendance, which one seems to be really active. Oh, and then look for like, if there's like any kind of like annual event, like like an annual luncheon or annual like holiday party or something like that. Usually those are going to be pretty well attended to. And of course, don't forget your business cards. Or your QR code, preferably both, so we make it as easy as possible to give people your information so that if they want to book you, they've got everything they need at their fingertips.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Those are really great tips. I also love the reminder of the business card and the QR code. Cause I feel like I am always forgetting my business cards.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

I know. I personally, I hate business cards. I could go off on this topic for like a whole hour. I hate them. I think they're useless. But people still use them, allegedly, so I actually put my QR code on my business card. So that way, like, you know, if they don't want to hold on, hang on to the business card, they can like at least have the QR code there. But yeah, it's especially if you're going to a networking event, it is good to have like a hard copy business card with you.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Those are such great tips. I also started at a job in a consulting firm where the culture was all around networking, but it's such a good reminder because I haven't really thought about bringing that into my business more systematically. So I love that. Um, two episodes ago from. This episode, we talked about investing in education, investing in yourself, and I think this is another good way that you can invest in yourself and your growth as well. But let's talk a little bit about pitching and finding brand context, because that's also another thing that you mentioned that you, I think you cover in your new course, your upcoming course, right? And so I would love for you to tell us all about this. Like, let's start from the beginning. Basics, like what does it even mean to get a brand contact or get a brand sponsorship? What are we asking these sponsors for like give us all of the details

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, so I kind of put it into two different buckets. So if you're interested in creating content for a brand, like social media content that's based around, you know, your art either they, they might find you like a brand might find you. I hear all the time about, like, you know, Tombow or like VersaTalk. They do a lot of stuff in the calligraphy community where they'll reach out to different creators and ask them, like, to create. you know, content for them. And so if this is something that you're interested in, certainly you could reach out to these brands, especially if there's like a brand of like a product that you use and you love you know, reach out to them. Who you're looking for are basically like people within like the um, they could have different titles, generally speaking, like marketing team. So one thing that I do when I'm looking for brand contacts is I will go on like their LinkedIn page and I will just look at like the The people who work there and then I will look at like their titles. Do I see a lot of people with like marketing in their titles or do I see like one or two? And that is really important to figure out because you need to know like who you're going to be pitching. If there's, if this is an organization that has a big marketing team, then you want to get really like clear about who exactly you want to pitch. So again, if this is like something you're interested in, whether it's pitching because you want to get business from them, like you want them to book you, or because you want to do like a brand sort of content sponsorship with them. You need to look for like their social media team for that latter part. If they have a big social media team, then you might want to look for somebody who's like influencer strategy, because that kind of falls in the influencer strategy. If you're creating content look for somebody who's, who does that. And then if you're looking for somebody who might book you, let's say for like a live event or something. Look for, you know, people who have like events in the title or brand and and sponsorships. That's also like a good title to look for. But just kind of understanding like what these titles are and looking at the company as a whole to see like, are there people, you know, with these specific titles, you know, some companies don't really have big marketing departments. And if you just find like one contact, it's totally fine to just reach out to that one contact. You know, you don't know if they're going to respond to you or not. But that's the, that's the. You know, the part about pitching is that, you know, it's a cold call, essentially so that's so that's one half of it. And then the other half is there are times where brands will reach out because they want you to create like something for them. And it's not necessarily like, Content, but they want you to use your art your art skills to create something for them So for example, I had a really big jewelry brand reach out to me a couple months ago And they didn't give a lot of information, but they it was a rush job They wanted me to write an envelope and then there was like a little note like, you know I love you kind of note and that they wanted to include it in a photo shoot and that was pretty much all the information that they included But because I have a background working in influencer management strategy, I know like what questions to ask, even though they were not asking me to create like, you know, social media content. When I hear you're using, you want me to create some form of art for your photo shoot, instantly I'm hearing commercial. Like whether it's going to be, you know, used in advertisements, a billboard, even on their own social media, they're going to use that artwork to help them make money. And even if my artwork is not like the centerpiece of it I still want to make sure that I'm getting paid commiserate with what they're doing. You know, going to end up getting paid um, or end up making from that. So I gave them a quote that I felt like was very fair, both based off of like, one, it was a super rushed job. Like they had contacted me on like a Saturday and they needed it overnighted by Monday. Um, And two, I asked like a lot of follow up questions about how they're going to use it and whatnot. So asking those follow up questions, I gave like a really, you know, what I felt like was a fair quote. They ended up not booking me for it. And that's totally fine. They're. Again, I, I'm not going to let my artwork be used for commercial purposes without getting compensated properly for it. So but those are things that you could, you might get approached for. You never know. I mean, you just, when you're a calligrapher, especially if you're posting yourself on social media, you just never know when those kinds of opportunities might come your way. And so you want to be prepared for how to deal with it, even if it's like it happens once in a blue moon.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, those are really great tips. I'm not happy that you didn't get the job, but I am happy to just like, have you say for everybody else to hear, like, I'm not going to compromise on my pricing when I know that this is like what the value is, this is what it's worth. And if it's being used in this way and not coming down on that just to, you know, get the job or whatever the case may be. So. It's just like, it's nice to hear. And I think it just helps other people feel less alone. That like, if they also didn't get that one job that they were really hoping for, like it happens to all of us. All the time, you literally never know.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Well We all hear like exposure doesn't pay the bills. But here's the thing, when even exposure would be limited, it's not like they're gonna tag me in their billboard. Like, you know, the calligraphy was done by Marie by made in September. Like it's not gonna be there. So like if you're not compensating me, I don't get any of the benefit other than I get bragging rights. Like that's not enough. you know?

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

yeah, you can't build a business off of bragging rights.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

for sure

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

So as far as like, when it comes to pitching, I would love to hear a little bit about like what you feel like calligrapher should do on our end before we actually go out and pitch ourselves and our services to, you know, a brand or a sponsorship partner.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Well, first, I have to give a shout out, Xiaochen, you talk a lot about pitching in your pro wedding calligrapher course, and I think pitching has a lot of value, and, and it doesn't have to be super time consuming, you know, a quick note, you know, just like two, three lines, you know, introducing who you are, also talking about what you can provide to that person. So not just like your services, but like how they will benefit from it. So again, putting yourself in the position of a client you know, People don't buy things for like a list of features. People buy things because they want whatever that transformation is going to be or whatever that benefit for them is going to be. So thinking about like the services that you provide and to your target audience, why does it benefit them? And include that in your pitch. So, you know, for example, if I'm pitching like, You know a retail brand and like, you know trying to convince them. Hey, you have this new product that's coming out It'll be perfect for engraving, you know, I would talk to them about you know The experience for their customers and how it's going to like it's going to be memorable like I always say that the difference between a branded giveaway that goes in the donation pile versus one that is kept is personalization. So I kind of take that approach when I'm like pitching my clients Perspective clients is like, what, what would they, how do they see the benefit? And you really, you have to kind of think about not just them, but who is their customer? Cause ultimately that's why they're hiring is like, there's an, they have an audience who they want to delight in some way. So in terms of preparing I would have your, have your pitch prepared. Like again, keep it short, just a couple of lines. And then also include a link to your website. If you don't have a website, include a link to your, you know, Instagram, wherever you, they can see photos, easily see photos, like one click. They shouldn't have to go digging around, send them like somewhere where they can see one click. They can see your beautiful work. And then I usually attach like my rate book or, you know, I have like a deck that kind of shows like the different events that I've worked because I don't want to just show like my work. I want to show the experience that their guests are going to have. by showing photos and examples of the different events that I've worked before. So I always include that. So again, they can see themselves in the position of a client who wants to book an artist for their event because they want to delight their guests. So just kind of having those types of things. And, and again, just really underscoring thinking about the needs of your ideal client as you're pulling together your pitch.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

I feel like it's so helpful to just hear, like, I think this is the theme of the episode is just to constantly be putting yourself in like your ideal client's shoes. And then also that added tip of like thinking about who their client is and the experience that they are going to want to provide to that client and how you can deliver that.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yeah, this is so timely. I'm literally planning to send out a bunch of emails today to contacts I've worked with with live calligraphy. And I'm like, Oh, maybe I should include a little bit of this in that email or, you know,

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

so I love that.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. And you know what? That's a good point, Xiaochen. Like testing out like different things, like, you know, maybe you include like this one line in this one email and then do a net, like it's called like an AB test in marketing, you know, where you might do one type of copy for these five contacts and then another copy version of your copy, your pitch rather in this other for these other five people and then kind of see what resonates. It's not going to be the most scientific, you know, experiment, but it's, you know, it is good for you to kind of understand like what is resonating with people.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Yeah, totally. And I think you had mentioned this earlier, but like, you don't expect everybody to respond, right? Like you, you got to be out there to shoot your shot, but it is like cold calling, like you said, or cold emailing. And so I have done this exercise a lot of times before as well in person over email. And sometimes you get a job from it, which I think makes it worth it for all the work that you put in, even if you don't hear back from everybody. Right.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah, totally.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

And you had mentioned the rate book template, which is kind of like a brand template for calligraphers to put information about their services, photos, their pricing information about themselves. And now you're getting further into the education space by working on this new course. So we want to hear all about that. Why don't we start by just sharing a little bit about why you decided to create this course.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Sure. Um, So Xiaochen, I know you know this because I'm a student of yours in the pro wedding calligraphers course, and I just feel so passionate about the calligraphy industry. And I've made so many incredible relationships just like with you guys. And I really Genuinely, like, I don't know. I feel like mama bear about us. Like, nobody messes with my calligraphy friends. You know what I mean? Because I don't know. It's just, this is like my happy place. And I am the type of person, I'll give a quick story. So I'm the type of person that, like, when I learn something new, especially if it's something that I didn't know, I'm like, well, if I didn't know this, There have to be other people who didn't know this thing too. So a primary example is that during the pandemic, my sister and I used to have like a personal finance blog and podcast. And the, we, the reason we started is not because like, I'm obsessed with personal finance. I'm really not. But when was it like 2014? I was starting a new job and my employer offered me a 401k and I had no idea what to do with it. And this is like the third time I had a job that offered a 401k. But I had gotten to an age where I'm like, Marie, you really need to figure this stuff out. Like one day you're going to need to retire. And so I just. Rolled up my sleeves and went to Google University and just did a deep dive into 401ks and figuring out how to invest I learned about investment strategies I learned about picking funds and how to actually like evaluate them and it is not that difficult It really isn't it seems like it's like they I feel like the industry wants to make it look like it's that difficult So you have to pay them money to like, you know pick these things for you It's not that difficult and once I learned how to invest in my 401k, I told my sister about it You taught her what to do. We rebalanced her portfolio. She started seeing gains from it. And then she again went down the rabbit hole too. And then we said, we need to like set up something for our friends because we know like if we were in that position, they're in that position too. And so we set up what was known as our first wine ants night. So we wanted to have like wine and charcuterie and talk about finances and our 401ks. And we literally had a PowerPoint presentation that we shared with our friends on like a Saturday night. I use that as like an example of just wanting to share my knowledge and things that I learn with other people. And so kind of circling back to the course here, the reason why I wanted to create this course is one, I have this marketing knowledge. I see. Calligraphers who are doing like a lot on social media and they're not necessarily getting the results that they want to get. And I also would get like a lot of DMs, like people would say, Oh, Marie, I see you're getting like a lot of these events. How are you booking these events? So I wish I could just say it's like this one or two, you know, quick things, but it's a lot of different stuff. things that you have to do in your business. It doesn't have to be super time consuming, but you kind of need to understand what those things are. And we've talked a lot about like getting into your target audiences mindset. And that's, that's something that we spend a lot of time talking about in the course. Because when you know your customer and your target client, like the back of your hand, it's going to be so much easier to market to them and you'll start seeing more results. So I really wanted to do this to support our community, to help other people, whether you want to go full time or you just want to sort of level up your business. I want to see calligraphers succeed. And the last thing I'll say and I'm not going to get into like politics, but right now, you know, we're recording this shortly after the election here in the U. S. And I think for a lot of people, this is just a time of uncertainty. You know, some people are feeling anxious and concerned and you have to kind of focus on the things that you can control, and if we can control our businesses and we can focus on growing our businesses and finding ways to do well during a time where other aspects of our lives are, you know, the greater world just seems very you know, uncertain, then I really want to help support calligraphers and artists who really want to just dive into their businesses and, and do well for themselves, do better for themselves. So that's really why I wanted to create this course. I'm really excited about it.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Amen. I love all of that. And like, I always say we have to focus on what we can control and just let go of the things that we can. And a lot of time that is things like politics and the economy and, you know, Global pandemics, like that is all out of our control, but if we can focus on our business and the things that we can control within that, then like that is going to set us up for success. And I also feel like there's not, there's still not a ton of educational resources designed by calligraphers specifically for calligraphers. So I think, you know, having your marketing knowledge and your calligraphy background and being able to meld the two into something that You know, can be a hundred percent geared toward calligraphers. Like I remember when I was just starting my business, it's like I was taking courses or watching webinars that like were either for photographers or wedding planners, and then, you know, kind of having to be like, okay, this makes sense, but how do I translate it to my specific business? So I think the more that we can get those resources that are. By calligraphers for calligraphers out there is just so incredibly helpful. So I would love to hear if you are able to share a little bit more about what's inside the course. Like what can people expect and when is it coming out?

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Yeah. So the course is called Beyond the Nib it's a marketing and business development course that it's tailored towards calligraphers and live events artists. So I talk obviously a lot from the perspective of a calligrapher because that's what I do, but you know, if you primarily do bottle painting or, you know, illustrations or something like that, this is still going to be relevant for your business. So the first section we talk about just setting a strong foundation. One of the biggest things that I think gets skipped over, doesn't get talked about enough, is understanding ourselves as a business owner and as a person because there are things that we're going to be stronger at, and there are things that we're not going to enjoy doing. And Elaine, you mentioned this earlier in the episode about transferable skills, and that is so so important because every single person has a talent. They have a transferable skill. If you used to work as like a healthcare worker, there is something that you know about like being like super efficient and caring for people that I don't necessarily have, may not necessarily have that skill that you can bring into your business. And so When we, when we set our foundation in the first section of the course, we do like we're going to do like a personality test exercise because I really want people to understand who they are and have a greater awareness because when you know what you're good at and you know what exhausts you, we're going to stay away from the things that exhaust you. And we're going to focus on the things that you enjoy doing that will also give you results. And that's going to look different for everyone. So I'm kind of like your Sherpa showing you how to get to that place. We talk a lot extensively about marketing channels. So obviously social media is a huge component of that, but it's not the only component. We talk about SEO. We talk about. Networking. We talk about pitching. We talk about email marketing content marketing, all of those things. And again, you don't need to be doing all of those things in your business. Start with one, find the one that matches your skills and your, your energy, your desire to do that thing, and then focus on that. And then we'll figure out like, okay, what, this is the right, this is a good path for you to go down for this particular channel. I talk a lot about business development and then we also talk about, like, just a lot about live events. So I have an entire module that's just about, like, setting up the best live event experience you possibly can. And one thing that I, I think is kind of missing, or that I think is like a gap is there isn't, there aren't a lot of like resources for calligraphers or live event artists. To talk about like managing your client from when they reach out and have that inquiry and what kind of like discovery questions to ask. I mean, there are like super nuanced questions like, is the drinkware that you want me to engrave going to be served during that night? If so, you need to understand that because those glasses need to be washed. You can't give somebody, you know, a whiskey glass that you've just engraved and it has like glass dust particles all over it, you know? So there's like tiny little nuances like that, that I, you know, They're, they're probably called out somewhere, but I don't know where it is. So I wanted to talk to artists about that. And Then also things about like, you know, managing guests on site. You know, if you, if you're doing a high volume event and it's your first time doing it, what are the things you need to know? We spent a good deal of time talking about like those brand sponsorships and brand contracts. So again, if you get approached for that, or if you want to pitch yourself for those types of things, you're prepared to do so. And it's just. Yeah, it's a really robust course. I've had to like go through and like take things out because I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to be like an eight month long course. It's going to take people forever to get through it. So I don't know, maybe I'll have to do like a two or one. I've been toying with the idea of maybe offering some sort of like you know, short term like coaching, like if people want to sort of plus up from from the court, you know, maybe we do like a six week or eight week group small group coaching. I don't know. I haven't decided if I'm going to do that, but yeah, it's a really great a lot of really great information and it launches in January. It's going to be towards the middle of January and I'm really excited about it. So by the time this comes out you guys will be able to learn more about it. Um, You'll be able to go to the link in the show notes and learn more about the course. But I'm really, really excited. It's, this has been a labor of love.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Sure. I like cannot believe how much you are packing into it. And it just sounds incredible. And I feel like no matter where people are in their, Business journey, they are going to learn something new or walk away with a new skillset or new knowledge. So it sounds amazing.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

And like a great, I love that it's coming out in January. Cause everybody's in like, I know I'm always in like learning mode in January and just wanting to like set my year off on the right foot. It's usually a little bit quieter, you know, after the holidays. I feel like that's the perfect time too, for people to dive into this.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

I like that you're giving people basically a menu of marketing strategies that they can select from the idea of like tapping into what gives you energy or what you're good at. And then kind of like doing less of what's going to drain you. I love that you start with that approach. It reminds me, I think it was Susie from Lawson house who mentioned like, you don't need to incorporate. You know, we were talking about SEO. She was like, you don't necessarily need to incorporate SEO into your marketing strategy, but what you need is to have a marketing strategy. And I think that's ultimately what you're teaching people to do in this course is like they can pick and choose from the menu. They just need to know where they're putting their energy and what they're focusing their time on when it comes to marketing. Right. So they have a strategy.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yep, you hit the nail on the head.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Well, thank you so much, Marie. This was like so much great information. I've loved hearing more about your journey from the last time we really got to catch up. And then obviously all of these great marketing strategies and knowledge that you shared with us today. So before we wrap up, obviously we'll have people go into the show notes to find the link to learn more about your course, but can you also tell us where our listeners can find you and connect with you?

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really have loved our conversation. I could talk about this stuff all day long, so this is so much fun for me. You can find me primarily on Instagram at maidenseptember, M A I D E N, the month September. And then you can also find me on my website, maidenseptember. com.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Awesome. Thank you so much. We'll link all of those things in the show notes as well.

shaochen--she-her-_2_11-12-2024_095227:

Bye Marie.

alane_2_11-12-2024_115227:

Bye.

marie---maiden-september---she-her-_1_11-12-2024_115227:

Bye.

People on this episode

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Alane Gianetti

Host
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Shaochen Wu

Host