Calligraphy Biz Corner

28. Show Up, Stand Out & Build an Authentic Brand Online with Madelyn Furlong of Madelyn Victoria Co.

• Alane Gianetti, Shaochen Wu • Season 1 • Episode 28

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We know how overwhelming it can feel to show up online consistently, create engaging and authentic content, and stand out as a calligrapher or creative entrepreneur—which is why we’re so excited for this episode! We’re joined by Madelyn Furlong of Madelyn Victoria Co., a Showit website designer and social media expert, who shares her best visibility strategies for small businesses as well as content strategies that attract clients with ease. 

If you’ve been struggling with social media marketing, feeling stuck on how to build trust with your audience online, or wondering how to turn followers into paying customers, this conversation is packed with actionable tips you can implement right away!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • How to Build an Authentic Online Presence: The secret to showing up in a way that feels natural and attracts your dream clients.
  • Social Media Consistency Tips: How to stay consistent on Instagram and create a strategy that doesn’t lead to burnout.
  • The 10-10-10 Framework for Engagement: Madelyn’s simple but powerful method to grow engagement and connect with potential customers.
  • How to Balance Short-Term & Long-Term Marketing: The difference between social media marketing and website SEO, and why both matter.
  • How to Create Content That Converts: The exact steps to craft content that builds relationships and drives sales.
  • Customer Journey Framework for Creative Entrepreneurs: How to create a seamless experience that turns leads into loyal customers.
  • Visibility Strategies for Small Businesses: How to make your brand stand out in a crowded online space.

If you're looking to attract your ideal clients, build a loyal customer base, and show up online in a way that actually feels good, grab your notebook and tune in. This episode will give you the confidence and clarity to market your creative business effectively.

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alane_2_02-19-2025_161935:

Hello and welcome back to Calligraphy Biz Corner. I'm Elaine.

shaochen_2_02-19-2025_141935:

And I am Cha Chen, and we're so excited to bring you a guest episode today with Madeline Furlong of Madeline Victoria Co. She's an expert on both showit website design and also creating engaging social media content.

alane_2_02-19-2025_161935:

So Madeline actually found us through my business coach Erin. We have a mutual connection between her. And Erin was on episode 20 of this podcast. So we'll link that in the show notes if you wanna go back and listen. But Madeline found us, she made her way over to our website and filled out our applied to be a guest form, and after reading through it, we both agreed that she would be such a perfect fit for our listeners.

shaochen_2_02-19-2025_141935:

We know how much of a challenge it can be to show up both authentically and also consistently online.'cause we hear this from our calligrapher community all the time, that it's such a struggle. So that's what we're gonna tackle in today's conversation.

alane_2_02-19-2025_161935:

Yeah, I feel like even I took so much away from this conversation, like I like social media, so I feel like I don't, it's not as big of a pain point as it is for others, but still, there's plenty of things that I do struggle with and I just love, I loved her approach because I. I feel like it's very similar to the way that I approach it, which is more about creating genuine connections online. Like yes, they are definitely marketing and visibility platforms, but it's really about just making. People feel like people, like as a small business owner, I feel like you always want people to remember that you are a person behind that business. And then it's the same thing with your marketing, like the people that you're talking to, your clients, et cetera, making them just feel like they are also people and you genuinely care about them. And I think one of my favorite things that she shared that I hadn't heard before and I will probably start to try to implement is her 10, 10, 10 framework. So I'll save the juicy details for the actual episode, but I really loved that.

shaochen_2_02-19-2025_141935:

Yeah, I like that framework too because it also helps us from like doom scrolling for forever. She'll talk about what it is, but it helps you limit your time that you spend on social media and use it in a really meaningful way. I also really kind of took that away from this episode is just like building the genuine connections.'cause there really is. So much noise on social media that we go get bombarded by like not only people we follow, but also like suggested people and also ads and all this stuff, It often seems like everyone wants me to do something or wants to compete for my attention. And so it is really refreshing when someone just wants to have a conversation with me. And it's, it's just about that, just about building a connection. So when we talk about showing up authentically, we talk a lot about how to actually create a relationship because that's all we really want as people. So we want someone who cares about us, like personally. the other takeaway that I had was. it comes to being consistent, make it feel doable for yourself. So maybe the gurus say you have to post every single day, twice a day, whatever. But that's probably not doable for a lot of us. So think about what is gonna make it feel doable for you, the amount of time you have. And that could be once a week, you know, and or maybe less. Think about how can you approach this in a way where you won't be overwhelmed by it because the moment you're overwhelmed or feeling burned out by it, you're not gonna show up at all. And so that's kind of what we wanna avoid when it comes to like trying to build consistency.

alane_2_02-19-2025_161935:

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like this conversation was such a good piggyback off of our empowered CEO series because we just released the. Action episode before this one comes out. And even in that episode, like we talk about how time blocking and building your day is and your weekly structure, like you have to do what works best for you at the end of the day. So hearing these guidelines and frameworks are super, super helpful. And then it's just remembering to take it and like adjust it to whatever feels best for you.

shaochen_2_02-19-2025_141935:

And then don't forget, if you wanna support production of our show, if you enjoyed our empowered CEO series or enjoy our guest episodes, we would love your support. You can go to the support our show, link in the show notes, and you can buy us. A coffee or multiple coffees there, and that just goes into covering our costs and time for producing the show.

alane_2_02-19-2025_161935:

So a little bit about Madeline. Madeline is based in small town Tuka, Alabama, and she helps small businesses create, show it websites and engaging social media content so they can turn their leads into sales. She uses her knowledge and experiences to help clients transform their customers into cheerleaders and take their businesses to the next level by helping them create a standout website and social media presence. They can show up online with confidence. All right. Without further ado, let's turn it over to our conversation with Madeline.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Welcome, Madeline. We're so excited to have you Here on our show Why why you just giving serve us a little bit to yourself and share a little bit about your background. journey, like what led you to specialize in Showit website design, and social media marketing.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Well, thank you both for having me. I'm so excited to be here and talk with you. I'm just really looking forward to this conversation, but, so I found that a lot of small businesses know that it's important to have a cohesive website and they know that it's important to show up on social media, but they aren't really sure how to go about doing that. So I help them create a show at website and engaging social media so that they can actually feel confident online and then turn those leads into sales. So I always tell people like I'm an accidental entrepreneur. I had no intention of owning my own business. Like that was really not on my radar at all. But it all kind of started in college. So I was an English major. I had a marketing internship that I just fell in love with. And so I was like, well, that's cool, but you know, I'm just gonna go the corporate route. you know, that was always like my plan. I'm very much like a organizational type freak, so I was like, this is my plan. I'm not gonna defer, like, I'm not gonna stray from the path. Well, I mean, you know what they say, like, we make our plans and then God laughs. So started having like a social media management business on the side and it was just for fun. It was a side hustle to make some extra money. But when graduated from college, I kind of like, my mindset shifted a little bit. And so I was like, well, what if I actually like, see where this thing goes? It's, you know, a good time in my life. Let me just experiment with this a little bit. So I ended up getting a couple of part-time jobs. And then continued to do this side hustle. And when I, one of my part-time jobs was working at a bookstore, which was so much fun. But when I was doing that, I learned even more about small businesses and fun fact, like our town was featured on HGTVs Hometown Takeover. And so there was like a whole other side to marketing that I hadn't seen from like the small business world just like getting to learn how to like market yourself on the heels of like this HGTV show. And so, um, just learn as much as I could about marketing, social media, things like that. And then was eventually able to go full-time with my social media management business. And then along the way I expanded into marketing strategy and show it website design services. I Was doing both of those anyway, but like didn't offer it formally. And so, started doing that and have absolutely loved it. Haven't looked back and just continued to grow. So it's been a wild but really fun ride.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Amazing. I love the accidental entrepreneurship. I feel like I relate to that. I don't think I ever saw myself as being an entrepreneur. And here we are.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah. I feel like so many of us can relate to that, where it's just like you kind of, I mean, this is what I always believe is like if you're just following what's lighting you up, you never know where it's gonna lead you. And I feel like that was both of our stories too. It's just like, this seems interesting or like, you know, I don't love what I'm doing right now. What else seems exciting to me?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yes. Yes. And it makes it so fun too. So much more interesting.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Mm-hmm.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Yeah.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

So let's start with social media, because I know that that I feel like is the most overwhelming thing for entrepreneurs because, you know, we start our businesses doing whatever it is that we love. Like for example, Chen and I started our businesses because we love calligraphy. Not necessarily to be, you know, social media gurus, content creation experts, et cetera. And I think a lot of people kind of share that sentiment and just kind of feel overwhelmed by the idea of just having to show up consistently and be posting on social media and come up with the content, ideas, et cetera. So we would love to start by just hearing, why do you think it's important for business owners to be showing up on social media and online consistently?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

That's a great question because that's one of the most frequent comments that I get is that social media is super overwhelming and they don't know where to start and they don't know how to be consistent. So it's for a good reason too. Like I understand there are so many. Accounts on social media, and a lot of businesses feel like they're on this like endless hamster wheel trying to create content. And social media is just always changing. I mean, like, for example, a few weeks ago, Instagram unrolls all of these new changes like new dimensions and like for posts and then like how long reels are and like how different content is ranking, things like that, just to name a few so you can like really get exhausted just thinking about it and trying to stay consistent. But showing up consistently is important for several different reasons. First of all, like it builds trust, so. People don't buy from someone that they just discovered, at least not usually. And it really goes back to this know, like, and trust factor. So, you know, they have to know you before they like you. They have to like you before they trust you, and then they have to trust you before you know they buy from you. And so showing up regularly, even if it's just, you know, like twice a week on posts, it just really keeps you in their world so that when they are ready to buy, you're the first person that they think of. So another like thing going along with that, why being consistent is important is because it keeps you top of mind. This world is so busy, people have a million things on their mind, and if they don't see you consistently, then they'll just forget about you. It used to be that people had to see something seven times before they um, know, like bought something or invested. But now, like that number has grown dramatically just in the digital age that we're in now. And then also consistency creates momentum. So the more you show up, the more engagement you get. And it's kind of like a win-win, I say, because like, the more engagement you get, the more that Instagram pushes your content not only to your followers, but then also to people who don't follow you. So. being said, like consistency doesn't have to mean posting every single day of the week. I don't recommend that. Like, just because that's super hard to keep up with and causes a lot of burnout. But, you know, being able to create a rhythm that you can actually stick to is super important. So like, can you share two posts in a reel every week? Great. Can you show up in Instagram stories Monday through Friday? Which I love Instagram stories but, you know, great. Do that. Just pick a schedule and like try to stick to that and stay consistent.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

I love that take for those three reasons that you described, like building trust, staying top of mind, and creating momentum.'cause it kind of goes back to even things that we just talk about, like in our client journey or things like that, like following up with people. People get so kind of nervous or apprehensive about following up with a lead, but it's like, it's not their job to keep you top of mind. It's your job. And I feel, feel like that same idea translates to Instagram. But I also, I also love stories and I feel like stories are such an easy way to be consistent. Like if you can't post. Five days a week, maybe you can only manage like creating one post a week, which is totally fine. Even just like taking people on your day to day or behind the scenes on stories, because I feel like it's way less pressure and it's way more personal too. So I feel like that helps build more of that trust. So I love that.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Mm-hmm.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Stories are so much fun. And like you said, they're just a lot more manageable than, you know, feeling like you have to create a whole reel or a whole post. It's just like, Hey, let me hop on stories and show them what I'm working on right now. Yeah, I think if people just look at it from that approach too, it's just a little bit less overwhelming and daunting. Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

the realness of those stories. And like also just a reminder for people that like you, your posts might show up at the exact perfect time for someone's like trying to book something. And so that's also why it's important to like keep showing up even if it feels like, I know sometimes with the algorithm it's like, oh, my post got five likes, you know? And sometimes it can be like, it can feel kinda like deflating, but I just got off a call earlier today. With, a stationer that I'm planning to partner with, and she's like, yeah, my client wants these fabric signs. And that was like the last post that I saw that you made recently. And it's like, okay, yeah, maybe that post didn't get a ton of likes. I don't know how many likes it got, but it's like part of my portfolio now and someone can see it and that it might have showed up just at the perfect time for someone to either give them inspiration for something they need or maybe it was exactly what they were looking for. So Madeline, you focus on both long-term marketing, which we've talked about on this podcast before. So we kind of talk about website design and SEO as being part of that long-term marketing strategy, but also short-term marketing like immediate marketing, like the Instagram piece. So I'm

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

I,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

since you work on both sides of those, how do you balance those different aspects of marketing when we as business owners have such limited time, how do you think about prioritizing one or the other, or both? Like how do you think about that?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

yeah. This is another question that I get asked sometimes by clients, because again, it can feel so overwhelming and just. You know, hard to balance, especially like you said, because they're busy and they don't have a lot of time to devote to this. So is kind of how I tell people to look at it. And this is a little bit of a cheesy example, so bear with me. But it kind of helps get the point across just a little bit. So your website is your home base, right? So, that's where people are going to learn more about you. That's where you know, your offers and your services sit. But social media is the, like invitation to get people to that website, that home base. Again, your website, it builds the credibility, it gives people information that they need. It converts, you know, those leads into clients, but social media is what actually gets people to it in the first place. So. you don't have a website yet, I would focus on prioritizing that and getting that set up first. Even if it's just a simple, you know, like one page site that tells people what you do, like who you are, how you help, and how they can work with you. And then if someone finds your Instagram and you know, goes to your website, then they'll see like, okay, this is the transformation that they provide. This is how they can help me. And so it's just a lot better of a journey, I guess, than if you were to direct people to your website and it just wasn't, you know, built out. It wasn't good. Like you'd just end up losing potential business. So, with that being said, like. We mentioned before, you have to have the good marketing strategy to get more visibility, but you actually have to have a good website for when you know that visibility works. You have to have it to like get them to convert and, you know, work with you.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Yeah. One thing I noticed, just to kind of add onto that as an example is I noticed that for calligraphers, a lot of times our Instagram will serve as kind of a portfolio of our services, especially in the wedding industry. What I see happen a lot is like people will share, like planners or other calligraphers will share each other's profiles, and then a client might like skim that first to just to see like, do I like their style? Do I like their type of work, et cetera. And then if they kind of pass that first screen, if you will, then that's where they then go to the website to learn more details about process services, FAQs, about the person that they might, might wanna work with, and kind of dive deeper. And that's, I think that's kind of what you're getting at. That's how they work together. Right.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned that it serves as like a portfolio because I always like recommend having, you know, your work on your Instagram, like, you know, having it as a portfolio and like having case studies I mean, just a few weeks ago I shared a case study from a client and they reshared it and then I got a lead from that. So you don't realize like how impactful that can be. And then, you know, of course they'll go to my website and like do you know, like get the information from there. But that case study, that portfolio is such an important piece as well. So I'm really glad you mentioned that.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

So thinking about. Instagram profiles and thinking about showing up consistently on social media. And again, I think you already mentioned a little bit with just like how much content is being created and put out there these days. What are some strategies that business owners can use to just help them stand out more authentically online?'cause that's, I think that's a big thing too, is like wanting to feel like, I don't know, that you're not just like faking it or it's not authentic to you. Like I think that people do care a lot about showing up as the person behind the business. And I think a lot of people also, at least PE calligraphers that I speak with, tend to struggle with like how much personal. Aspects do I share on my social media, on my business page versus just keeping it business? And I personally think that there is a balance there. But I think we also tend to hear authentic and immediately think like, oh, I have to show every single piece of my personal life then. And I don't think that that's necessarily the case. So to kind of sum up that question, going back to the meat of it is do you have any strategies that business owners can use to stand out authentically?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

yeah, I absolutely love this question and I have a lot of thoughts about it, but as far as like strategies first of all, like start small and stay consistent. So we already touched on consistency a little bit. again, when I see people trying to tackle it all, and whether that's like posting every day or whether that's sharing like all of their life, which like you said, I don't recommend, like, there's definitely a balance that just all leads to like frustration and burnout. So one of the things that I like to tell people is um, far as strategies, you can start with the 10, 10, 10 method. this is something that I do, I encourage my clients to do every day. So it's spending 10 minutes on like your feed, engaging meaningfully with people, so like actually being genuine in your comments. 10 Minutes on Instagram stories, which I have found that those 10 minutes are like the most impactful, like when I'm going through like client stories or you know, people that I just really admire in the business world. Like so many awesome relationships have come from that and it just feels like a bunch of friends. Like it's really awesome. And then the last 10 minutes is, you know, spending it on like accounts that your target audience is following. and if you don't have 10 minutes to devote to each of these groups, then, you know, do whatever is manageable for you. And so like the goal with this is not only to you know, be intentional and not spend hours on the vortex that is Instagram, like when you set a timer that's, you know, your key to move on. But it's also just being authentic. It's showing up, it's building connections, and it's making sure that like you are again, just engaging meaningfully, like leaving comments. And I, I know I mentioned this earlier, but in stories like, I mean, truly I have made so many different business friends and stories just because, you know, I've. Watch their stories and I've spent like 10 minutes every day engaging with them and like really caring about, you know, their life or their business.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Um, so 10 minutes on the feed means 10 minutes kind of scrolling your feed and

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

your feed. Okay?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. So it's like accounts that you already follow. Mm-hmm. So,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

minutes on stories is engaging with stories of people you already follow. So maybe liking, sending comments and stuff like that. So

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

So this is all about

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

10 10 is all a model about engagement, right?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yes. Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

and then 10 minutes. The last one was on accounts your target audience follows. So how, tell me more about that.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah, so it's really putting yourself in your audience's shoes. So what accounts are they already following? Where are they hanging out? What kind of content do they enjoy seeing? And so then it's like going to those accounts and you know, again, leaving meaningful comments. I mean, several times, like in the past, I wanna say like month or two, I've had clients tell me like, oh, someone found me because I left a comment on you know, this, this Instagram page. But then also, like, you can go a step further than this and you can, I. If you have like a leads list and you know, you have their Instagram information, like their username, then you can go on their account too. And just like, you know, engage meaningfully. Now I, I say engage, but like, we don't wanna spam. We don't want them to like, think that we're being like slimy salesman or like icky about it. Like, we want to genuinely pour into them, genuinely, like show that we care. And I think that's really the key right there because I've seen both ways. I've seen where people are just, you know, trying to go about it all wrong. They're just trying to get you know, the sale and they don't care about the person. But when you, when you do care about the person you do meaningfully and authentically engage with them then like that makes a big difference. So I definitely wanna like put that caveat in there. As far as like standing out, like authentically, I mean, in today's world there is just so much. Like noise, I guess. And it's also like a very AI driven world. And so, I mean, this is like one of my biggest pet peeves when I can tell something was written by ai. I mean, nothing against, you know, using chat GPT for like a caption. But when you can like clearly tell that chat, GPT wrote it and it's like blast off to your next adventure and then it has like the little rocket ship emoji. I'm like, ugh. Which most people don't. I, I don't think most people notice that, but I do. cause I work in this like, you know, every day. But, I think just like showing up as yourself, like showing what makes you different, letting your personality take the wheel, whether that's like humor or using storytelling or just the way that you naturally talk. Like don't shy away from that, you know, lean into your uniqueness. And then like even touching on storytelling, huge. Like that is one of the biggest like marketing trends that I've seen in 2025. But also in 2024. I mean, it's always been there. People have always loved stories, you know, mean, for centuries, you know, people just gravitate towards stories. But I think we're even like more so gravitating towards stories because we live in, you know, a world that uses artificial intelligence and there can be like a, I guess like fakeness factor, for lack of a better word. And so people just like genuinely crave those like real stories. And again, that's like the best performing content that I see right now. Here's just an example, instead of saying like, here's these wedding invitations I just made, and like posting a picture. And I'm totally making this up, but like maybe, you know, they show that this like wedding invitation suite is special because the bride wanted to incorporate like her grandmother's handwriting into the design. And then when the bride saw the final piece, she just like broke down into tears. Doesn't have to be that extreme, but, you know, just like pulling out stories and like really highlighting those in your posts and making sure that they are just really connecting with other human beings. and then I would say also like sharing behind the scenes content, which I know we've talked about this a little bit, but it's worth mentioning again. Um, People just, again, they love the behind the scenes content and I know a lot of my clients when I tell them like, oh yeah, you need to like, share more behind the scenes, whether that's in a reel or a story. They're like, nobody cares what I did over the weekend. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody like is gonna spend time watching this. But then when I flip it around and I ask them, I'm like, okay, so do you like watching these types of stores? Oh yeah, they're my favorite thing. I'm like, well, you know, maybe this is something that we should consider. So, it's really funny, like when they see that light bulb go off, so don't have to share like, every little thing. Like definitely do not share like your most like, personal things, of course. But think like the more that you can integrate, you know, behind the scenes of your business and like sprinkle in some from your personal life, the better. And I don't have like, concrete answer for how much is too much, but I think like, you know, you'll know like from your. I guess from your gut, but then also like the responses that you get from people, you can usually tell, like when they're engaged and like maybe when they're not, you know, watching as much or, you know, maybe when you've crossed the line of, oh, this is too much. But usually, like, people that I talk to have the opposite problem. They aren't sharing enough.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah, no, that's all really helpful and I love that you touched on like even with just that example of like a caption of a wedding invitation suite. Like it's more about creating emotional connections rather than just like, here's this piece of work that I did, you know, here's this portfolio piece that I did. It's like bringing out, because especially as calligraphers, like what we do is very, emotionally driven work. Like it's either for wedding days or really special events, or we're tying in these like keepsakes and details and you know, personalized aspects of people's love story or whatever the case may be. So pulling that out to create these com, these emotional connections between you and your audience on social media, I feel like is such a great

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Wow.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

And I think it's the same thing with like the stories too. I mean, like you said, people get scared to share certain things or to be a little more just like themselves and just share some personal things on stories. But it's like that's, that is where you are creating these connections with people. If you like consuming it. Other people also like consuming it. And I also think. I think that we always get in our head of like, well, why should I share this? Who cares about this? Really? But it's like remembering that there are very different buyer types out there. Like people have very different buying psychology, and some people might need to see reviews and testimonials in order to trust you and buy from you. Some people might just wanna know that like, oh my gosh, she reads the exact same books that I do. Like I know that we're gonna get along. I really wanna work with her. Like there's so many different aspects of reasons why people purchase and make investments, and I feel like you kind of have to touch on all of them a little bit in your social media presence and the way that you show up in order to make sure that you're hitting these different people.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

yeah,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

And you

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

we.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

about doing the behind the scenes, I think not only does it build that connection and authenticity, but also it gives us more content to repurpose. So if I have one project and I have like some final photos from the wedding or photos that I took myself of the final piece of work, I can also make a reel of the behind the scenes that into that work. And now I have more content to show and maybe I do a couple different behind the scenes from different angles. You know, like, so just think about that as a way to help you, like create more content from the projects that you already as well.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah,

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

sure.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

I also think, but behind the scenes is so great for calligraphers because it's so easy for people to see pretty photos of like signs, envelopes, stationary, et cetera, and not think about all of the work that goes into it. And I think that it also just reinforces like. Your expertise, your value, why your prices are the way they are. Like when people see you literally doing something by hand, they're like, oh, I couldn't do that. I need to hire this person for my wedding.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

yeah, I've literally been on site doing something by hand and someone's like, wait, I thought you were stamping it. And I'm like, no, actually come here. Come watch. You know, something. It serves that purpose. So we have referenced this pain point a couple times now, just like showing up consistently. I hear this a lot from calligraphers that I work with is like, just feels like such a to push through to get yourself to be consistent on Instagram. And I think even more so now with Instagram's focus on video content and reels. So for someone who is having trouble staying consistent with content, and I'll count myself in that category because for me, kind of just. always ends up falling to the bottom of my list. There always seems to be something more important to do in my business that I need to get done, and that's a large part of why it's hard for me to stay consistent. There's just simply not enough time in the day, even when I have the best intentions, even when I have things that are like that I've planned out and stuff.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

So

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

how

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

how would you,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

me get back on track? What's the first thing that I should do?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

okay, so the first thing that you should do is you should sit down and figure out what you want your goals for next month to be. So I always tell clients who are overwhelmed with this and who want like, done with you help. okay, and we usually do this at the end of the month. I said, okay, like, what do you want to accomplish in the month of March? So do you wanna post you know, twice a week? Do you wanna post three times a week? What do you want that to look like? First of all what are your goals? Do you have like something that you wanna highlight, like a service you wanna highlight? Do you have a new freebie, a new offer? Like, because if you do, like, obviously we're gonna wanna incorporate that into, into your content. What is your audience's pain point is another question that I ask them. Like for you guys, it wedding season is around the corner. People are, you know, thinking about that. So you know, you want your content to reflect that. So it's first coming up with a plan like writing out those answers, kind of creating like a loose framework. I actually have my done with you clients, like make a content calendar and they can just use a paper calendar. Like, it doesn't have to be fancy, but you know, like the block calendar, like the wall calendar with the blocks on it. And I have them actually like go in and put, okay post number one on like, you know, Tuesday, post number two on Thursday, post number three on, you know, the following Tuesday, post number four. And so they can see like where they're going to post. And it's just like a very rough outline. It's like a skeleton almost. And then later we'll go back and we'll fill that in. But yeah, that's where I would start with first is just figuring out how consistent you wanna be and then what your goals and overall like, audience's Pain point is gonna be the following month.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

So say we make our plan to get consistent. We've got everything mapped out. We know what our goals are, we know what our, we want our posting schedule to be. Know what we wanna be promoting and what our audience's pain points are. All of that good stuff. So now the next step I feel like is coming up with ideas. So again, I feel like even if you can get really clear on that first step of I have my plan outlined, how do we actually take that and then start to come up with content ideas and. Create engaging content without it just like completely taking over our, you know, our daily schedule or time blocking goes out the window because you've just spent three hours on one post.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Oh yes. That's the worst.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

me.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm really glad you're asking about this.'cause this is like one of my favorite things to talk about. So, after you've made your plan, which again, I, I find that it's like best to do this at the end of the month, then you're going to actually, like you say, create the content. So I encourage people to have like a day, a week for content creation and just if, if they can't, you know, make it one specific day, then just like have several different times maybe throughout the week to devote to this. And it does not have to be hours upon hours. Like, I do not recommend that at all. You do not wanna spend that much time on it. But for me it's spending a couple hours on Thursday morning making my content. Once I have that in my minds that I'm going to work on content Thursday at like, you know, 10:00 AM I have that in my calendar. It's a recurring, like calendar like block, just so I can like, make sure that I get it done because if it's not in my calendar, I will not get it done. I go back to my content plan and when am looking at all the questions that I answered for myself, like the goals, the pain points, things like that already, like ideas are gonna start coming to my mind. You know, if again, a pain point like for me is okay you know, Q2 is almost around the corner and my clients want to really hone in on their marketing. So like I already know that I'm gonna have several different posts that, you know, speak to that. You can also use chat GPT to like say, Hey, these are my audience's pain points. Can you come up with like, some ideas to reflect that? I take all those ideas and I just start mapping them out in my content calendar. So, we're filling in the framework a little bit, right? And it is so helpful, like when you actually have like you break this down and you actually like see all the ideas. You're not just saying, okay, it's Thursday. Like, what am I gonna make? You know, today you already have those ideas mapped out and so, and plus your brain, like I find that when you kind of break this up and you have like, you know, one time for content ideas and then one time for actually like creating the content, your brain isn't going back and forth as much and it can actually like, concentrate a little bit better. so once you again, have up with that plan, come up with the ideas. Set aside a day to do that. Then I like to start with my biggest pieces of content. So I have an email list. You know, some people have a podcast so whatever like that biggest content pieces, maybe it's a blog. Start with that first and then write that. And then you can start like from there you can, you know, post that, but then you can repurpose it, which I love Repurposing content. I mean, oh my goodness. Like if you aren't repurposing content, you're missing out. Is one of the biggest time savers and I mean, you can turn a podcast into an email. You can turn it into a blog post and you can break it up into like two social media posts and a Instagram reel. I mean, there's so much, and I know a lot of people get scared when I tell them this'cause they're like, that's a lot of like the same content. And I'm like. Well, first of all, like people aren't really paying, you know, a ton of attention. They're not gonna notice that you're repurposing the same content. Second of all, you know, some people are on your social media ad that may not be on your email list. You know, who may not listen to your podcast, so you're kind of hitting them, you know, that way. And then third of all, it's, you know, if they are on all of your, like social media channels and your email list and your podcasts, then it's like that repetition. Like they're being reminded over and over again. You know about this whatever, you know, you're teaching or you're sharing. I kind of come at it from those different angles. And then just as a like last tip to save some time, like when you're actually creating content, I always tell people to utilize templates. you know, for carousel posts you know, have several of those templates for like quote posts, have several of those for static posts, then you can just keep reusing'em. You don't have to like, you know, design it from scratch every single time. And that cuts down drastically on time. I mean, that is probably one of my biggest time saves that and content repurposing.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

this was really, really helpful. I also love that you recommend. Splitting up kind of your like ideation and planning versus the actual creation, because I do think it's a lot harder to kind of have your brain be switching back and forth between like, what are the good ideas? What should I turn into actual ideas? We're also big fans of repurposing content over here and just making it easier. And I love that you pointed out like all of the reasons why it is okay to be repurposing your content. I know like one of my biggest struggles, so this may be like a selfish question that I'm asking, but I feel like one of my biggest struggles is like, I do what you just described. I have, you know, a day where I'm kind of brain dumping just ideas and kind of deciding like, what do I think might be good to chat about depending on what my goals are like for the next two weeks. And then I try to put those into like actual days of the week. But then when I sit down toree, I'm like, is this still a good idea? Do I even wanna still do this? What if there's something better or like a better way to say this or a better like, post about this instead. And then I go into like this analysis paralysis mode that just ends up costing me so much time and I'm like, oh, I got nothing done.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Oh my goodness. I, I fall in that trap too.'cause I'm a perfectionist. I'm an Enneagram one, and so it's always just like. You know, asking myself, oh, well, did I word this right? Or again, what if I, you know, could do something better, like, come up with something better. But I have a mentor and she always reminds me, she's like, done is better than perfect.'cause if you're always trying to get like the absolute perfect post, like you're probably never gonna, you know, post that. Like can't tell you how many times, like, I've gone back and I'm like, oh, I should have like, replaced that word with something else. You know, I would realize that days later. But again, if I just like waited around for like the perfect like, you know, inspiration or the perfect like, word to strike, then I would never get anything done. So, I know, I totally feel you there. I'm definitely a perfectionist when I come to that or when it comes to that, but just have to remind myself like I am, you know, sharing something valuable, even if it's not like absolutely perfect. Like it still has a lot of you know, purpose and it carries like a lot of merit. So, yeah.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

such a good reminder I think, for all of us.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

And I

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

I love how as you were talking.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

so this episode hasn't come out yet, so you wouldn't even know this, but the last part of our series is around taking action as a CEO, and you mentioned two of the strategies as you were giving your answer. So we talk about time blocking, and we also talk about minimizing context switching. So I feel

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

sweet.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

on the same wavelength

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

I love that. I love that. See, I knew, I knew that we had something.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

And then I love the kind of the hack about having templates created for posts so that you don't have to spend that mental energy every time you wanna create a carousel, a quote post, like, and one of the things that I love is just to like purchase a template

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

I don't need to spend time designing everything. So I've purchased these off creative market before. I'm pretty sure Etsy has them. So you can look for something that kind of fits your aesthetic and then you can always customize it to match your brand colors, fonts, et cetera, in Canva. And that makes it a lot easier and faster to create some of these posts as well.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah, and Canva makes it really easy to organize it too. Like you can organize it by folders you know, like, have all your static posts in a folder, have all your carousel posts in a folder. I mean, it, it's really so easy. And then you can just go in, pick it out, and then, you know, keep recycling and repurposing.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Yeah. All right. We're gonna switch gears a little bit because one of the things that you had mentioned to us when you sent in like some information about yourself in terms of speaking on this podcast is you mentioned a customer journey framework. So I

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

I would love to,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

little bit of time, if you can share with our audience, like what is

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

is,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

and then how does it apply to what we've been talking about so far about showing up online?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

so I like to think of the customer framework, the customer journey as like three different pieces. So you have organization, personalization and going the extra mile. And when all three of these are done well, then you're gonna turn your customer into your biggest cheerleader, which is, you know, such a great goal. It's such a great way not only to, you know, make sure that they're satisfied with, your product or your service. But it's also a great marketing strategy too, because when people, you know, absolutely like, love what you do, love what how you've helped them, then, you know, what are they gonna do if they're gonna, you know, maybe post about it on social media or tell their friends and family about it. And so like, turning your customer into your cheerleader, I mean, just has so many different merits. But diving into like the key parts, the first one is organization. And, know I keep mentioning like I'm an organizational freak. I feel like I've, I've mentioned that I'm like, love organization several times already, but I really do love planning and organization and just like all the things. So even though you wouldn't think that organization plays a big role in the customer journey, it really does. it Shows that you respect your clients, you respect their time, you respect you know, the fact that they chose you like chose to work with you. so. I always tell people like, you can't plan for everything, but you can be as prepared as possible. So, you know, what does that look like? It can look like establishing a clear communication plan with your clients upfront. It's making checklists and SOPs so you know exactly what the process looks like. And I even, you know, you can take this a step farther and like not only have checklists for yourself, but then you could even give it to clients if it's appropriate. And just like so they know like, okay, so here's the timeline for this. you know, this is all the things that I have to have you know, given to the business that I'm working with before, you know, they can move on to the next step. You can also streamline your work and then you can automate it. So I love using Calendly to you know, book appointments. I love using metrical to schedule out social media posts. My goodness, I love metrical, but I mean, there's just like all these different ways that you can, you know, automate and streamline your work.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

think you're speaking Elaine's love language right now.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

We're both very organized, but I think Elaine even more so on all these fronts.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah, I'm a big, I'm a big systems and client experience girly over here and I love that like one of the first things that you said was basically that your customer journey is your best marketing tool, because that's what I practice and preach in my own business because I do think it's so, so powerful when you can turn those clients into cheerleaders because they do, they either become repeat business or they go and tell all their friends, and then those friends go and tell their friends and it's just like, it also then takes the pressure off of having to show up every single day on Instagram or like make sure your website and your SEO is on point. Like it takes a little bit of that pressure off to know that you will still be getting consistent inquiries coming into your business because of your client experience and your client journey.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Absolutely. Yes. 100% agree. And I love that. You love that too. That makes me so excited.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

I. You touched on organization. So the second piece of your client journey framework was personalization. Was that it? Okay.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

yes. Yeah. So that's the second way to like, turn your clients into your cheerleaders. It's going beyond just like the surface level and really getting to know them. So this could be surprising clients with like unexpected kind gestures. Or it could be like you know, for example, you're sending them a handwritten note thanking them for their business or like a birthday card each year. Or just remembering to follow up with something that they told you. You know, maybe like, you know, you're. Doing calligraphy for a baby shower, like the invitations for, baby shower and maybe you check back in like several months later and you know, just check in on them like mom and baby. That means so much like when you just reach out and just follow up. I'm sure you guys do this, but like, just making sure that you're as personable as possible. Uh, I Know of a wedding photographer and she asked bride, it's like on their initial questionnaire she asks them like what their go-to coffee order is and then like the day of their wedding, she shows up with their favorite, you know, coffee drink, the one that they put on the questionnaire and it has like their new last name written on the cup. So it's super sweet, but it's so simple. I mean, you know, she spent just a few dollars for the cup of coffee, but you know that that bride is gonna remember that gesture for years to come and she's gonna tell people about it. And so it's just like finding different ways to connect with your clients and be personable.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah, I feel like the goal here is to. To make them feel less like a transaction and more like a relationship, right? Like you don't ever want somebody to think that this was just an exchange of money. Like you want to have them feel like you genuinely care about them and appreciate them and are grateful that they chose you, and then they're gonna, in turn feel the same way about you.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

And like we are in the business of creating like special moments, keepsakes, heirlooms. So I think this like applies to us even more as calligraphers and like creatives. And this is something I feel like sometimes we have to learn or train our brain, especially if you're coming from a corporate world. I remember when I first started my business, I was all about being really like to the point and succinct and everything in my emails, like laying out, okay, here's what I can do, here's the next steps. And it was like, I guess not necess, I didn't see it as transactional. I just saw it as being really like, efficient in my communication. I remember one of the, kind of got together with a group of calligraphers, like, you know, kind of a mini, mini mastermind type group just amongst us, and they were like, one of them was like. You gotta really demonstrate that you are excited about this specific person's wedding. Even if you might be getting inquiries from many other people's weddings you're talking to lots of different people, this is somebody's really special day and it matters a lot to them, how excited you are about their day. And I was like, oh my gosh, why is that such a revelation to me? So then I started adding things to my email about like how excited I was, how like if I knew what their venue was or if I had any personal connection. Just something to kind of build that rapport right away. And I think that goes, like, goes a long way. And when I think about how I worked with vendors on my own wedding, that was certainly the case. Like the people who made me feel like I was just another inquiry in their inbox. I didn't really wanna work with them, you know?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Absolutely. Yeah. There's a, um,, book that I was thinking about, like as you were talking, some of the things that you were saying me like this book pop into my head, but it's called Unreasonable Hospitality. It is one of the like, best books I think I've ever read about, like, the customer journey and like, especially like personalization and going the extra mile which I know we'll get to in a minute. But jumping ahead like for a second like that book just brought out so many different things. Like, you know, being excited about the people that you are serving, making them feel special and it just, you know. It made me see things in a whole different light. Like I was already trying to do a, you know, some of these things a little bit, but like, reading that book, whatever business you have, I mean, truly every business owner I think, should read this. It's so good. I mean, it's, yeah, it, it's really good.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

That book has been on my to read list for like, I think a year now.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

oh, you should, so it is

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

So I am, I feel like that was the push that I needed to just like go get it from the library or download the audio book or something.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yes.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

we'll have to link it so other people can find it on you probably buy it on Amazon. It's

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. Hospitality. Yeah. And I,

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Wasn't he, um, a chef at or

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

at 11 Madison Park? Is that what it was? Yeah,

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

He was a chef. That, or no, no, he was like the head waiter or something. Or the manager, sorry. That's what it was. The manager I knew I was

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Okay.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

The manager, and then he became like, think part owner. And then now he has like this whole other business. I mean, it's, it's fascinating, I don't know if you guys have ever seen the Bear like the TV show, but they referenced that book like several times, which is really cool. I was like, oh my goodness, I just read that.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

So fun. So the third part of your customer journey framework is going the extra mile, correct.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. Yeah. So going the extra mile ties in a lot with personalization. So there's a little bit of overlap here that you'll see. But you know, when it comes to going the extra mile, I always think like, how can go one step further? And I encourage my clients to think about this too. Like in, you know, their business, like their marketing. You know, maybe this is like reaching out randomly to your clients and seeing if there's anything extra that you can do. You know, people are so grateful, like when you do that, when you go the extra mile, I've seen this time and time again. And then like, when you just anticipate their needs, so. course, like we definitely wanna protect your time, so we don't ever wanna like, go crazy and do a bunch of extra work for nothing. But it doesn't hurt to put in, you know, a little bit more effort and thought into um, things. One example of this is, like, for me if I'm working with a client and maybe I'm helping with their email marketing, but I see something on their social media that I really think I, you know, could tell them, they could tweak to really make it shine or just like, you know, have an idea for something that they could feature, I'm gonna share that with them. So it's, it's things like that. And then of course, like doing an amazing job. I know that's basic, that should go without saying, but when you do a really good job and you're excited about your work and you're excited about the clients that you're working with, it really speaks for itself. So don't just settle for, you know, getting the job done. Take pride in your work. These things are like really small, but you know, they make a huge impact, especially, you know, when they're stacked up against each other. And that'll really make you stand out from the crowd. You know, be unique, be authentic, and just be someone that people wanna work with.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with all of that, and I, I love that you gave like, you know, quote unquote smaller examples because I do think that people here, you know, going the extra mile, going above and beyond, surprising and delighting, building a client journey, all of these things, and it feels like really overwhelming. Or they think that they need to do these like. Big grand gestures and at the end of the day, it's really not at all about the big grand gestures. I work with calligraphers on like building out their client experience and I feel like so many of them are kind of mind blown when it really is. Like, it just comes down to, like you said before, anticipating their needs, being able to ask or being able to answer their questions before they even have to ask. Making them feel really comfortable and confident in your services. And like you said, small things of like, oh, I noticed you spelled street wrong on an envelope. Like I went ahead and changed that for you. Or you know, I've like doing that extra step of proofreading or, you know, delivering something before you say it's gonna be delivered. Like all of these little things just make the client go, oh my gosh. Like, thank you so much. Thank you so much for doing that. Or like, thank you for creating such a smooth process for me, or whatever the case may be. Yeah, to anyone who's listening, like they don't need to be, it doesn't need to be huge, extra money doesn't need to be involved on your end. Like it's just these little pieces that you can start doing right away.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

And just kind of tying into how we were saying like just treating people as people, because I think that's what we all want and create these days. Like with another example would be like, as my, with my mentoring clients, you know, if I see an idea that I have or a connection I would. To me, like that relationship is the most important, the most valuable part to me, more than like if we're technically in a official mentoring relationship or contract right now. So, you know, I always am trying to keep an eye out for those things too. Even with past clients keeping, still keeping in touch with them on Instagram, liking their moments when they have milestones. You wanting more business but more wanting.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yeah. I love that you mentioned building that relationship, keeping that relationship going and like just genuinely caring about them and connecting with them. And I think that's where the 10, 10, 10 method could come in again, because, you know, again, the first like 10 minutes that you're spending is engaging with people on your feed. You know, you're engaging with like those past clients, you know, when they're on your feed, you're you know, wishing them congratulations on, you know, their baby, or you are, you know, checking in to see how they are. Or you know, you're replying to their story about, you know, the new puppy that they just got, things like that. Like you said, it keeps you top of mind, so that's just like another way kind of that it's it's all connected. But one example too that I wanted to share about, so like going the extra mile is, um, a client, a few months ago, she lost her brother. And it was just, it was really hard and so I just sent her like a Panera gift card and it wasn't much, I mean, it was like$15. But that's like gesture. It was unexpected for her, and it just meant so much. And she keeps talking about it. Like I saw her just last week and she mentioned that again and, you know, going the extra mile. It doesn't have to be, you know, like you said earlier, Elaine, this huge grand gesture, but it can just be small things here and there that just really make an impact.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Yeah, just to know you're thinking of

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Mm-hmm.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

You know? That's all we really want is people right.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Exactly.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah, I feel like this whole conversation really just comes down to like creating genuine connections. And if you're doing that in your business online, you know, on. Media on your website, in, you know, direct client to client interactions, and I feel like you're, you're doing it all right.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Mm-hmm. All right,

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

so

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

covered so many great concepts about both how we can show up online on Instagram, and also through our websites and how those are connected, how to be genuine and authentic and stay consistent. So just to

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

kind of wrap up here.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

would love to hear if our listeners wanna find you, what is the best way to connect with you and learn more about what you do?

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

So if you would like to stand out online with a show at website in engaging social media content, visit my website madeline victoria co.com to learn how I can help you, and then I know we can only cover. So much in an hour. But instead of worrying about like, oh, I need to post, you know, 17 times a day or send out a hundred emails a month, which are super extreme examples I know. But I created a guide to really just help with visibility and to help you connect with potential clients and be profitable while doing it. So, um, you can just go to Madeline Victoria co slash visibility to check it out.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

and we'll make sure to link that in the show notes. And also you're on Instagram, right? We

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Yep.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

connect with you there.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

I'm on Instagram at Madeline Victoria Co.

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

Perfect. Well, thank you again so much for being on our

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

Madeline,

shaochen_1_02-19-2025_130746:

We really enjoyed this conversation with you.

madelyn_1_02-19-2025_140746:

thank you both so much. This was so much fun.

alane_1_02-19-2025_150747:

Yeah. Thank you. I think our listeners are really gonna enjoy this. I know I did so.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Alane Gianetti

Host
Head Shot

Shaochen Wu

Host