33. Lessons We Wish We Knew About Managing Clients as Creative Business Owners

Navigating client relationships is one of the most important — and often most challenging — parts of running a creative business. Whether you’re a calligrapher, stationer, live event artist, or another service-based creative, you’ve likely faced situations that tested your boundaries, communication skills, or patience.

In this episode of Calligraphy Biz Corner, we share how we set boundaries, manage expectations, and handle tricky client situations while still delivering a premium experience. We’ll cover:

• Using contracts to protect both sides
• Defining your scope to stop scope creep
• Setting communication boundaries clients respect
• Handling challenges with professionalism
• Spotting red flags early
• Knowing when to walk away
• Managing unhappy clients with integrity

You’ll hear stories from our own businesses and the lessons they taught us about safeguarding time, energy, and creative vision.

If you’ve ever felt drained by a project, second-guessed your boundaries, or wondered how to respond when a client pushes back, this episode will give you the strategies and mindset shifts to manage client relationships with confidence.

🔗 Links to resources mentioned in this episode:

• Listen to Episode 18 about contracts with Paige Hulse & get 10% off your Creative Law Shop purchase with code BIZCORNER
• Read Shaochen's blog on live event pricing
• Try Calendly for call scheduling!
• Give Open Phone a try for free!
• Enroll in Shaochen's best-selling business course for calligraphers, Pro Wedding Calligrapher
• Sign up for Shaochen's signage course, Seating Chart Success
• Gain confidence in your pricing with the Creative's Pricing Toolkit
• Apply for the Fall Cohort of Flourish in Biz, Alane's signature group coaching experience
• Grab the Calligrapher's Client Template Bundle for 20+ plug-and-play email templates and more!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: Why Client Relationships Can Make or Break Your Creative Business
• 4:22 The Non-Negotiable: Always Have a Contract
• 8:11 Defining Your Scope of Work to Avoid Scope Creep
• 16:19 Setting Communication Boundaries That Clients Respect
• 21:38 What to Do When Things Go Wrong (Real-Life Examples)
• 25:40 Being Flexible While Protecting Your Boundaries
• 30:43 Spotting Red Flags and Clients Who Aren’t a Good Fit
• 37:35 Handling Unhappy Clients with Professionalism
• 43:52 Your Next Steps: Refining Your Client Process (And How You Can Work with Us!)

Transcript

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 0:31

Hello and welcome back to Calligraphy Biz Corner. I'm Elaine.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 0:34

And I'm XO Chen, and today we're diving into something that every single business owner deals with, especially if you're a surface based business. And that's navigating client relationships. And of course, we all hope that our calendar is always filled with dream clients, the ones who will trust your creative vision and will gladly pay a raise. And the ones who rave about you to their family and friends. And while there are definitely things that you can do to attract those types of clients, the reality is that even when you do those things challenging and unforeseen situations can, and they still do come up. And it's a big part of our job as business owners to be able to navigate those circumstances that aren't ideal.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 1:13

Yeah. Regardless of how long you've been in business, you will have at least one client or maybe two who are gonna test your boundaries or make you question your sanity, or sometimes just have you pacing around your studio being like. Did she really just say that? Or texting your biz bestie, being like, you won't believe what just happened. But the truth is that building strong client relationships isn't just about being nice or being flexible. It's really about being clear, being confident, being intentional, and that starts before you ever even sign a contract. So whether you've had a situation where a client ghosted after the proposal, or they tried to double their guest count halfway through the project. Or they emailed you on a Sunday asking why you hadn't responded yet to their email that they sent just two hours ago. This episode is for you.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 2:01

We are gonna talk about how to set boundaries that set you up for success, and also what to do when things go sideways. And we're also gonna share some real life examples of when things have not gone according to plan for us and how we've handled it. So you can see some of those real life scenarios. we jump into this episode though, we wanted to give you an update on what you can expect from our Calligraphy Biz Corner Podcast for the rest of 2025. So after this episode, which is coming out in August, we'll be taking a break for the rest of the year. create some space for projects that we have going on in our business. And also because I'm going to be on maternity leave in just a couple months, and I need to take some time before baby number two arrives in October because I am not ready.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 2:46

So exciting.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 2:47

Yeah, so even though we won't be publishing new episodes, we'll make sure that you have a list of listener favorites to go back and either re-listen to or catch up on if you are brand new to calligraphy B corner. And we are planning to be back in 2026 with new content. And as always, we appreciate you sharing our podcast with a friend, leaving us a review, supporting us and what we do by buying us a coffee. We have a buy me a coffee page, which is linked in our show notes. But thank you so much for tuning in and for being here and supporting us.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 3:21

All right, so we are gonna jump right in'cause we've got a juicy, fully packed episode for you today. When I first started out in my calligraphy business, I thought that being, you know, quote unquote easy to work with meant saying yes to literally everything, whether it was rush jobs or replying to weekend emails, last minute de design changes, you name it. At the time I thought that I was being professional or helpful or accommodating, but in reality, that just led to burnout, to resentment, and to attracting clients who really didn't respect my time or my process. So I learned relatively early on in my calligraphy career that a lack of boundaries doesn't actually make you easy to work with. It makes your business unpredictable, and that unpredictability chips away at your confidence bit by bit. So in today's episode, we are going to talk about a few of the non-negotiables that have helped both of us create a smoother, more professional client relationship and how it can help you too. So our very first. Piece of advice is to have a contract in place always. So I know that this probably sounds obvious, but it's really easy to skip this part when you're just starting out or for a smaller job or for, you know, those jobs of like friends of friends. But no matter how new you are or how small the project is, a clear contract is going to protect both you and the client. It outlines expectations, timelines, deadlines, what's included in your services and what's not. Not to mention, it also helps protect you from things that are completely out of your control, like lost invitations in the mail, or a seating chart that falls on guests. You name it. You can go back and listen to our episode with Paige Hols of the Creative Law Shop. That was episode 18. She gave so many tips on contracts as well as a story about a seating chart falling on a guest. So you can dive into that one for more details there. But it's not about assuming that something is going to go wrong, it's just about having clarity if something does go wrong. So a contract is kind of like insurance for your sanity.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 5:29

Yeah, totally. I think it's the best way to proactively manage difficult situations, which is what we're talking about today. Even just last week, I had to refer a client back to their contract, and I don't, I don't do this until I feel like it's necessary for them to see that there are things that they agree to, like that this partnership that we're working together on this is, there's an agreement between us. And so I sent them like a note about their production timelines from my contract. Because I was having trouble getting their seating chart information in time, I'd already given them a grace period, and in their contract it clearly says that if I don't receive the guest list. Three weeks before their wedding that they are going to incur rush fees starting at 50% or more. And I know that sounds like a lot, but like that motivated them to send me their seating chart that day so that they didn't have to pay more. And so I think it's always helpful when you have those things outlined so you don't have to figure out. In the moment, what am I gonna do? You can refer back to your contract and say, okay, what is already agreed upon between us? I also have a clause in my contract that allows me to cancel a project if I don't get their information with enough time to complete the project. And I think that's so important because what if this person just never sent me anything until, let's say the day before? There's no way that I could get a seating chart done in time. So I need my contract to protect me in those cases, for me to be able to say, Hey, sorry, I can't do this project anymore. And then the contract outlines what happens from there.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 6:54

Absolutely. I also feel like even just having that contract is like it's in your back pocket. You can refer to it if you need to. Especially when you are just starting out. Like I think, I think when we just start our businesses, we kind of are navigating that line between like, is this a hobby? Is this a side hustle? Is this a real business? And kind of like playing with those different mindsets of how you're showing up in your client relationships in various situations. And I think having a contract in place, whether it's, you know, a scrappy contract that you've put together or something that you've paid money for and invested in, I think it helps you switch out of that like hobbyist mentality and show up as a professional business owner and be able to more confidently say to your client like, no, I am the professional. I know what I'm doing, and by the way, here's my contract that has X, Y, and Z outlined, which like you said, you signed and agreed to. So

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 7:43

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and if you listen to that episode with Paige, so she used to be a calligrapher, so she knows all of these different scenarios that can happen in our industry. She has like a very unique perspective to it, and as a lawyer, she like wrote the contracts to cover us in that way. So if you're interested in checking out her, like professionally and legally reviewed contracts for the creative law shop. can also use our Code Biz Corner to get 10% off those contracts, and we'll make sure we link that in the show notes. So I think this is actually a really nice segue into our next piece of advice, which is be really specific about what's included in your scope, because scope creep can happen so easily, especially when you are in a semi-custom or fully custom line of work. And the more specific you are upfront. The less awkward conversations you'll have later. So whether that's you creating invitations, signage, doing custom work, going to a live event, you need to spell out exactly what's included for your client and get as specific as possible. So we're gonna just give a couple examples and get like really detailed here so that hopefully it's really useful for you. Like different types of work and the level of specific, specific. The level of specificity we would get to,

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 8:57

Yeah, sticky client situations usually arise because there's some sort of lack of communication or there's confusion on what is or isn't included in your services. So like you said, you know, being as upfront as possible is going to make the conversations less awkward. But I think it's also going to help you just avoid any unwanted situations that you may run into with your clients. So starting with invitations, for example, if you are a stationary designer and you offer. Wedding invitation suites, whether it's custom or semi-custom, it's super important to be very clear about what is actually included in that package. So, for example, are you offering assembly services? So a lot of stationers, you know, offer the printing and whatnot, the design, but they may not offer assembly as part of their packages. So be clear as to whether or not your clients need to take it upon themselves to assemble their. Stationary after it gets delivered to them, or if that's something that you provide for them. If you do include assembly, does that also include stamping or do your clients need to purchase their own stamps? Do they need to put the stamps on the envelopes? Is that something that you do? Does assembly include stepping of the envelopes? Do you also provide mailing? So all of these questions that your clients are probably asking, make sure that you are. Clearly outlining them upfront so they're very clear on what is and isn't included in your services. For example, I feel like the, the worst thing that can happen is they work with you on their invitations. You hand off a box of things that aren't assembled, aren't stamped, and aren't going to be mailed, and they go, oh, I'm supposed to do all of this like that. They shouldn't have that question at the very end. Whether or not you offer those things, it doesn't matter. That's totally up to you. But just making sure that your clients are clear on. Whether or not that is included.'cause then you might run into a situation where you feel like, oh, I feel bad. Maybe I should just offer, like maybe I should just assemblies now or mail them for them, or purchase the stamps or whatever the case may be. And now that's gonna be additional time and money out of your pocket.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 10:56

I like what you said about you get to decide the policies like you're the

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 10:59

Mm-hmm.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 11:00

Like no right or wrong answer to these questions, but you just need to make that decision of what you are gonna offer or not gonna offer, and then make sure you communicate that to your clients clearly. So the next example we wanted to give was around like the design reviews. And so really any type of work, typically, you'll have like some type of design review unless it's like an off the shelf product. And so when you're doing a design review, make sure that you're outlining the number of revisions that the client gets in the design review. So like what's already included in what they paid you for the design fee or whatever you kind of built into the pricing of your, your product or your service. How much does it cost if they do want to do additional revisions? So if they already provided all the feedback rounds that are included, how much does it cost? If they wanna do one more revision and one more round how much time do they have to approve a design? What happens if you don't hear back from them in that timeframe? I think this is so important, like going back to this client where like we're kind of, managing their timeline really tightly. It says in my contract that they have to reply by whatever the timeline is. That's. Stated in my review email or within 48 hours. And if I don't hear back within that timeframe that's stated, then I can move forward with the design as is. So make sure that you outline like not only how much time they have, but what happens if you don't hear back? Do you just send it to production? Do you cancel the project? Like what? What happens at that point?

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 12:22

Yep. The next is onsite delivery and or setup. So also we can tie in picking up to this as well. So like striking at the end of the event. So going through who is actually responsible for setting up signage, picking up signage, picking up rentals, returning them to you if you offer rentals. Thinking through who is actually responsible. Something breaks if a piece of signage breaks or if a rental item breaks, and then what is actually included if you are offering delivery in that delivery fee. So again, like. All of this is totally up to you, but I make sure that all of my clients know before they even sign the contract, that unless they want to add on pickup delivery setup services, they are responsible for picking up from my studio all of their wedding signage. And then they are able to make that decision of, oh, that works for me. That doesn't work for me. I wanna add something on. I actually wanna go work with another vendor who. Offers all of it, whatever the case may be, but it's just making sure that they are clear on all of that upfront so that way they can make an informed decision and nobody is confused or upset when the time actually comes for their wedding day, for their event, whatever the case may be.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 13:32

Yeah. And then if you are working live events similar thing, make sure that your client knows, are the travel expenses included in your pricing? What supplies are included. So usually. We don't include whatever the client wants personalized like that. Usually the client will provide that. And I think that is such an important point to call out, especially for our clients who have never done brand activations or live events before, especially if they've never worked with a calligrapher before. They need to know to budget for not only your calligraphy services, but also to budget for whatever product they want personalized. So that's super important to make sure that that's very clear. How many hours are you gonna be on site? How early are you going to arrive to set up? How much prep time is included? Sometimes you do have more logistically complicated events or bigger events maybe they wanna get on another call with you, you wanna make sure that you outline all of that. And actually I just published a blog post about how I've started presenting my live event pricing as a package and kind of listing out all these details of what's included, rather than just sharing what my hourly rate is. Because I think it really helps the client to see the value that we bring in all of the work. That's involved before we actually even show up on site and sit down in that chair. That's been really helpful for me to communicate my value and book more deals, raise my prices. So I'll link that in the show notes too, if you guys are interested in that. When I think about all of these, like details around like what's included, what's in scope not only do you wanna have these things in your contract, but a lot of times I'll include these. bullet points in the line item itself of the proposal. So when I'm setting up the invoice or the proposal, they can see that right there as bullet points for some of these details. Like how many rounds of design are included, how many hours are on site, like all that kind of stuff, like all the major points. And then I kind of put the finer print, if you will, like in my contract as well.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 15:26

Yeah, that's really smart. I think it's important to remember that. As much as we would love every client to completely read our contract front to back, they aren't going to. So I think reiterating, you know, the, the major pieces of your services, what is and isn't included, like what people really need to know in other places as well as your contract. So whether that be like on the proposal, bullet points, under line items, maybe it's in your service guide somewhere. Maybe you have an F-A-Q-P-D-F that you send to new inquiries that has like a breakdown of some frequently asked questions so that they can just get, you know, more familiarized with your services. So also don't be afraid to reiterate your processes and what clients can expect when working with you. That way they feel really confident going into it. And you're also really confident that like they're hiring me knowing exactly what they're gonna get and they're not gonna try to like. Go into scope creep or whatever the case may be. So the next thing that we wanted to chat through is communicating your working hours and response times. It can be very tempting to be available to your clients 24 7 because you might think that makes you appear more flexible or accommodating. That's exactly how I felt when I first started out, but it's actually doing both you and your client a disservice. You as a business owner are allowed to turn off, to disconnect, to unplug, to reclaim your nights and weekends. Your business is not going to fail. People are not going to give you bad reviews. If you operate outside of a Monday through Friday, you know, nine to five timeframe, then just communicate your office hours. To your clients. Let them know what days that you respond, what your typical, you know, response turnaround time is when you're offline. Having systems in place is going to help you fully establish and maintain your communication boundaries. You know, things like auto responses, we'll let clients know that their email was received and when they can expect to hear back from you by onboarding emails or going to set expectations of, you know, when can they expect to hear from you next, or what is the next step in the process? How they should be communicating with you throughout the working relationship together. Call schedulers, like Calendly are going to allow you to set your availability and your clients can actually just choose from times that you set so that way you don't have to go back and forth on when you are available. And if you do give your phone number out to clients, there are even apps. One is called open phone. One of the calligraphers inside of my group coaching program just shared this with me. I didn't know about it, but it gives you a separate business phone number that you can attach to your regular cell phone, and you can set like autoresponder texts that gets sent outside of business hours. So like if a client texts you at 9:00 PM on a Friday night. They'll get an automatic test text being like, Hey, got your message. I think you can customize it to say whatever you want. And you know, I'll be in touch with you on Monday morning at 10:00 AM or whenever your like next office hour time is. So putting those boundaries in place, but again, like this ties into our previous two points as well of just. Always communicating to your client what the expectations are and how you operate and what is or isn't included when you are or aren't working. All of that is going to help manage these boundaries. So I know for me, like having this one shift of not being available 24 7 really helped cut. My just like general anxiety of running a business in half. It also just trains your client to respect your time instead of expecting you to be, you know, available 24 7. And if they don't respect your time, then you can always point back to your policies, your contract, whatever the case may be, and just remind them of your communication schedule.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 19:02

Yeah, I am. I'm gonna have to try that phone hack open phone.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 19:06

Mm-hmm.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 19:07

right? I've tried Google Voice before, but I don't use it enough that it always, like the account just expires on me. So I'm definitely curious about trying this tool. But yes, it's also why I don't list my phone number in like public places. It's not in my email signature or my website or my Google business page. I've had. My phone number on there briefly at times, and I would just get like the most random phone calls from people asking for stuff that, you know, typically I don't do, because I don't think they've had a, they haven't thoroughly like my website. They just saw, oh look, her phone number's listed. Let me just call. It's easier, you know? and so that's just like a boundary that I personally set for myself. Sometimes I do give my phone number out to my clients just depending on like what their communication style is, because a lot of my clients do like to text. It's easier. I like to text actually, frankly, it's easier for me too. but I just kind of make sure that that's something that I only give to like my paying clients that I'm actively working with. One thing I do wanna call out too is like, you know, if you do get a text at 9:00 PM or outside your business hours, not only do you not. Need to feel the need to reply right away. But also, if you do reply, what you're doing is you're essentially like training the client that it's okay to text you at that time. And so we wanna like train our clients to know that we hold our boundaries, you know, that we will be responsive and that we will get their work done. But at the same time that we have boundaries. And so like if we break our own boundaries first, then the clients are gonna think that it's okay to continue breaking those boundaries.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 20:36

Yep, exactly. Same thing with email too. Like sure there are nights or there are weekends where I'm like, let me just catch up on some emails and I'm, you know, reading them, whatever. But I will never, ever send an email outside of business hours. I'm always like, schedule send 9:00 AM tomorrow, or whatever the case may be. Because the same thing like you just said, I don't want clients to think that I am. First of all, always working or that they, you know, if they email me at 10:00 PM on a Friday night, that I am going to respond, even if I am doing my emails on 10:00 PM on a Friday night. Like, I don't want them to know that they can contact me at that time. So, yeah, I think having all of these boundaries in place, it's really, like you said, it's about training your client to behave in the way that you want them to behave.'cause they don't know any better either necessarily. Like we can't expect them. Right.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 21:25

That's not, you know, it's not their job to know what your boundaries are. We've talked about some of this in previous episodes too. The other thing that I do that really helps me is I don't do email notifications on

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 21:35

Mm-hmm.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 21:35

For my business email. That

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 21:37

Yep.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 21:37

A lot. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what to do when things do go wrong, if. Feel like everyone's like waiting to hear this section of the podcast episode. So even when you do have all the best boundaries and the contracts, all the best intentions, things can still go sideways. So we wanted to talk through some real life examples of things that have happened to us and also the lessons that we've learned from them.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 22:00

Yeah, so shortly after I started offering mirror rentals, one of my mirrors ended up being broken by the venue. It was not on purpose. They set it up outside and like, you know, before the ceremony started and a gust of wind came, knocked it over, knocked it off the easel. Shattered the mirror. I was super sad'cause I really liked that mirror and it was one I used at my sister's wedding, but sentimentality aside, the good thing is, is that I didn't have to eat that cost of replacing that rental mirror because I had a clause in my contract that if a rental item was lost or damaged, then the full price of the rental would be charged. So. I wasn't stressing at all when my client, you know, texted me to tell me, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. The mirror broke. I was like, okay, no problem. We got to the bottom of like, who is responsible for paying? And she was like, the venue's gonna pay for it, blah, blah, blah. But it took so much pressure off of me because I didn't have to. Like, have that awkward conversation of like you or the venue or somebody needs to pay for it.'cause she already saw it in her proposal and in her contract. The other thing that I learned from this experience is now whenever I get on consult calls, if. Somebody is doing a mirror rental for any kind of sign, whether it's a welcome sign or a seating chart or something. I always ask where is their ceremony and reception going to be held, and where's the mirror going to be placed? Because if something is going to be done outside, I try to get them away from using Amir, or I will ensure that they're just aware of any potential wind. Damage, things like that, if they do still feel very strongly about using a mirror for their signage. So that's been really helpful too, to be able to kind of like preemptively have that conversation of like, Hey, heads up if you use a mirror and it's outside. Like it's rare, but it's happened. So just want you to be aware that way you also aren't upset with me if something happens and they come back and they're like. My welcome sign was destroyed because it was outside and it broke. Why didn't you tell me this wasn't a possibility? So just kind of thinking through all of those things.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 24:03

I'm sad because do they even get to see the welcome sign before it fell down like the guests

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 24:08

She did. Yeah. She saw it, but I don't think her guest saw it, which is a bummer.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 24:12

so rough. Yeah, and similar thing has happened to me too, luckily, I think in my case. We, they were able to display the sign and it broke at the end of the night. But this has actually happened to me more than once. And so the reality is just like mirrors are fragile, they break for a variety of reasons. Sometimes people just like don't even transport it the right way, you know? And so I also have everyone who's renting anything from me sign a separate rental agreement from my primary contract. Once their services are secured. Once they have their rentals secured and finalized, then they sign basically a sub agreement with me for their rentals. And in the rental agreement, I list the full price of each item they're renting so that if something does break or it becomes not usable again that they know how much they have to pay for it. Um. Put tips in their rental agreement specific to transporting mirrors because similar to you, like I want them to like have the best chance of not breaking the mirror, and that's a good way to educate them. So yeah, I mean, it might seem like common sense, but sometimes people will just like put things on top of the mirrors when they're transporting and things like that. But I think going back to what the lesson here is, I think it really ties back to that first. Piece of advice we gave about making sure you always have a contract in place, making sure that things are clearly outlined in terms of like policies. And also evolving that contract as you learn new things that could happen and based on your own experiences. The second lesson we wanted to share from our personal experiences was to hold your boundaries. So I had a client with a larger escort display that had a lot of small pieces as escort cards, and they opted for pickup because they didn't want to pay for delivery. And I had thought of a way to assemble all the smaller pieces ahead of time. So I thought, okay, this. This is fine. We can make the pickup work, but also because I am a anxious, paranoid person, I was really worried about things breaking during transit. So the week of their wedding, I offered to go onsite and set up the seating chart, the S escort wall for free for them, which. That's me eating my time, my costs, like all that kind of stuff, right? So I thought this was like a generous gesture, not only to save them like the time, the logistical trouble, but also literally hundreds of dollars in delivery and setup fees I would otherwise charge. the groom replied to ask me if I could also come and pick up their rental display for free too. obviously at that point I was like, I think I'm being taken advantage of here. So I just replied courteously and said. I'm not able to come back and pick up the rentals for free. I hope that by doing the setup, it takes something off their plate for what I know is gonna be always like a crazy wedding week. And just, there was not any room for negotiation there. I just made it really clear. I.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 26:58

What happened with that? Did they end up returning everything to you or did they end up paying for you to like, go back to pick everything up?

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 27:05

No, they, they ended up returning it

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 27:08

Oh, good. Okay.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 27:09

There was also some side comment about like, well, if we knew we had to rent a truck, we would've never gone this route. And it's like. literally looked back at our email threads, and I think this is also why it's good to have your com communication documented. I looked back on our email threads and I had told them what the size was, asked them if they could transport it, and they said, yes, we'll figure it out. So I was like, okay, you cannot put this on me. You

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 27:31

Yeah.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 27:31

Use this as an excuse for me to do more free labor for you, you know?

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 27:36

Yeah, I feel like that's a really great example of being clear, setting the expectations up front, like again, what is and isn't included in your services. Even taking into account like. What other details are necessary if they are doing larger scale things like renting a truck or adding on delivery, things like that. But I think it's also go, comes down to like, you can be flexible while also maintaining your boundaries. Like you came up with the solution of, you know, I wanna make sure that this is set up and delivered exactly how I'm envisioning it, and that's gonna be better for the client as well as myself. So I'm okay to like. Be flexible on that boundary because they didn't pay for delivery. But I'm willing to do that so that they have the best experience and the guests have the best experience with that seating chart. But like, I'm not going to also do pickup for free and like be flexible on that boundary. Like I'm gonna hold firm in that one because I'm already doing them a favor by being flexible on this one. So I think that's important too, because also like with weddings, things change. Closer to the wedding date, like I've had to revise proposals before the final payment is due when we're on like our three month check and call or whatever the case may be, because they just know more by that time than they might know at like 12 months out or nine months out. So when I first started my business in the beginning, I'd always like stress about how those additions would affect the client's overall budget. I didn't want to come across as if I was like nickel and dimming them or making it awkward or the whatever the case may be. Over time, I really learned that like the flexibility doesn't mean abandoning your boundaries. It just means being clear and professional about what changes might actually cost. So now when somebody does ask to add something like place cards, I don't panic or I don't hesitate, I just, you know, say like, yes, we can absolutely add that. That's my flexibility coming into play. And then I say, you know, it's X amount for this style of place card. Would you like me to go ahead and add this to your proposal? So I feel like that sentence alone saves me so much stress because it's simple, it's clear, it's flexible, but it's also keeping everything documented as well, kind of to your point before. Another thing is like if you're a stationary designer, or honestly any, even if you're a signage designer, like you were saying earlier with your design revisions, if you're worried about changes. Being requested after a proof has already been approved, you can include some sort of line in your contract and or in your proofing form that says something like, if any changes are requested once this proof has been approved, time delays and or additional production costs may apply that way. You are covered. If they do come back and you say, okay, no problem, but like, we're gonna have to now reprint this'cause you already proved it for printing and that's gonna cost X amount and it's going to delay our timeline by, you know, one week or whatever the case may be. So I think the key here is just to always communicate any changes upfront rather than later after it's already been, you know, printed or designed, or delivered. Clients are gonna end up respecting the process so much more when you are calm, flexible, confident, and just transparent with them the whole way through.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 30:44

The next lesson we wanted to share is try to identify right away when the client isn't a good fit for you. Ultimately, this is just gonna save you time. I know it's hard sometimes to be like, oh, I don't wanna lose this opportunity. This is a lead that came my way. But I think there is a difference between like, is it a lead that you want versus is a lead that. Isn't actually gonna be a great client for you. And I think the longer you're in business, the longer you're gonna notice things that are red flags. One thing that, like I've noticed as a pattern that I don't know exactly, the reason why I have some guesses is like if people put their email address in my required phone number field, they're less likely to book with me. I mean, they just like, they aren't invested enough to want to have a discussion with me or let me call them about their project or whatever that may be. But there are some other ones too, like some other specific examples I've seen are, had a client come in who asked for a discount because they had a Monday wedding. I did explain why I don't offer discounts, but I didn't even try to be like, oh, well, I'd still love to work together, blah, blah, blah. I just like referred them out to other people because if they're already asking for a discount, that means they're questioning the value of my work. And so instead, I'd rather them find somebody who is already in their budget and then everybody involved feels good about the outcome rather than the client presenting how much I'm charging and then me feeling undervalued. Another example I've noticed is like if clients are hard to get a hold of or get a response from during the sales process, like during the proposal process, it's likely an indicator of how they're gonna communicate or not communicate with you once they sign your contract too. And that can ultimately create more stress for you down the road when you are in contract with them and they are a client and you have like deliverables, right? And so sometimes for those clients, I just. When their proposal expires, I just think, okay, this is, this is time to part ways.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 32:32

Yeah, I think, you know, sometimes like we can take the time to educate clients and sometimes. I found that even ones that I thought maybe weren't gonna be a great fit, if I did take the time to kind of communicate with them about like why my policy is X, Y, and Z or whatever the case may be that helps to them be like, oh, okay. Totally get it. Great. Ready to move forward. And now they understand.'cause I've taken that time to kind of educate them, like I said, but. It's also okay to be honest, if you are getting red flags and you're just like, this is not going to be a good fit. Like, you can either say you're not available for their, you know, event date, wedding date, whatever it is. Personally I prefer just to be upfront with them and say that like, I don't think that my services are quite what they're looking for. And then end up giving them a few recommendations of, you know, somebody who I think might be a better fit. So just permission slip all around to know that it's okay to say no to clients who don't feel aligned because that's gonna leave room for the ones who actually are. And like you said before, it's just gonna save you so much stress and headaches and resentment and all of the things when you are only working with the clients who actually, you know, really let you up and bring you joy and who respect your process and vice versa.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 33:48

Another one I just thought of as a calligrapher is like if you typically do hand letter work, someone brings you inspo pictures of a lot of fonts or things that are typically not hand lettered. That's not like a red flag. It's nothing against'em. That's what they want. It's just not a good fit. And so I think that's usually like where I also just clarify like all my work is hand lettered it's calligraphy.'cause you want people who value that piece of it. You want people who value the handcrafted aspect of the lettering ultimately they pay a premium for that. So you wanna make sure that they get what they're looking for too.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 34:19

Yeah. Yeah. Piggybacking off of that, which reminded me of like another one is if somebody's coming to you with all of these inspo photos of like another calligrapher or artist's work, being clear that like, thank you for showing me these. Can we like get down to, is it that you like the design, the style? Like what is it? Do you like this specific calligraphy? Because if you do, like, I'm not going to be copying, replicating somebody else's work like. Here's my portfolio for you to look through and make sure that you really like my style, and if you don't, then I would highly recommend that you reach out to that particular calligrapher and commission them for whatever the piece is.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 34:56

mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Our next lesson is know when it makes sense to part ways. A couple years ago, I had a high end retail client who I'm sure you would know. I was booking live calligraphers for them all over California and parts of the West Coast. Like for one holiday season, I booked over 30 events for them and I could tell that my client was working herself to the bone to get all the details finalized for so many events. But what that meant was like she would sign my contract at 11:50 PM the day before. Our first event would start and I would just be on pins and needles all night, like not sleeping, checking my phone, refreshing, hoping that she would sign my contract so all these calligraphers I had lined up could go to their jobs. And because, you know, I had to communicate to the team too and make sure they weren't in a situation where all of a sudden something fell through last minute. And there were some times where things actually were all ready to go for the team. Like there was one event where I got a text from one of the store managers asking me where they're. Branded stationary was, which of course, like I wasn't in charge of the branded stationary. But what happened was they hadn't arrived in time and that manager for the store had to run to the paper source to buy some cars for the calligrapher

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 36:09

Oh my gosh.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 36:11

I think it was so, so tempting in that case to keep that client on my roster because not only were they a repeat client, they were a big brand name, and of course like bringing in revenue, right? But after that big holiday season. I sent them an email and I was honest, like the timelines are too short for me to be able to operate at the level I wanna operate. I wouldn't be able to book their events anymore for them. And I was really like courteous about it. I didn't make it personal. I don't think they took it personally because they actually came back to me at one point and asked me for some referrals for some events where they like had trouble finding people. But I just, that was a boundary that I had to set and that was a client I ultimately had to fire. It just like wasn't worth my sanity.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 36:53

Yeah, it's important to listen to what is energizing you and what's draining you, regardless of, you know, the status of the client or the status of the job, or. You know, whatever it is that you're kind of like looking at engaging things off of because, you know, some people are really energized working like last minute events. I am not one of them. Like when somebody reaches out for something that's in a week, even if I am available, I'm usually like, no, because I just don't like the stress that comes with it anymore. But some people love that and they like thrive under that pressure. So I think it's just staying true to whatever it is that really works for you and being okay that like. Not everything is going to work with you and knowing when to say no and knowing when to say yes. So our last piece that we wanted to talk about is dealing with unhappy clients, because that can and probably will also happen, at least. One time or another. For me, this was probably around like three years into when I had first started doing calligraphy. I had a client who hired me for an envelope job, and during the proposal stage, I sent over examples of my past work, like I do for everybody. She really loved the calligraphy on a set of place cards that I had done and asked if I could match the style, that same style for her envelopes. And it was like. Names were gonna be in calligraphy, and then addresses, were gonna be printed in like the block lettering that I used for, you know, table number on the place cards. What she didn't realize that I should have realized is that those place cards were at least like one to two years old. And so while I didn't really think much of that at the time, my style had definitely evolved since then, in my opinion, in a good way. Like I always think that my style is improving over the years as most of ours are. But when she received the envelopes, she emailed me back and was so unhappy. She was like, they don't look like the samples I sent. I don't like this at all. Like all of these horrible things. I mean, not horrible. She was nice about it, but she was honest with me and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be sick. This is terrible. But I did try to explain to her that calligraphy is hand done. Like it naturally evolves over time. Thankfully, my contract has language in there that covers that. Like it literally says something like calligraphy is subjective and ever evolving. So that gives, like, that gave me ground to stand on legally. But I personally still just felt terrible about the whole situation. Like she was upset. These were her wedding invitations. I wanted to make sure that I was fixing it, but also protect the time and the work that I did put in. So at the end of the day, I ended up offering her. A 50% refund just to. Make it right in some way. She accepted that, she thanked me for it. And then of course, like a week later when guests started to receive their envelope, she was texting me, being like, oh my gosh, everybody loves them. They're so beautiful. So, I don't know, maybe I should have also been like, how about we just wait to do anything until people receive it? But that's okay. You live and you learn. Basically what it taught me was to always keep your portfolio updated, which like. Wasn't necessarily top of mind for me, but I realized it's just another one of those, like setting expectations for your clients. So if you do have things in your portfolio that are outdated, if your style has changed, if you don't offer certain services anymore, make sure that you're removing those pieces, you know, from your visual portfolio or communicating that upfront like. What I could have done when she said, I really like these place cards, I probably should have said like, great, those are a couple years old, so my style has changed. Let me do a sample and then we can tweak if needed and like approached it that way first just to make sure that she was really happy. So basically like don't assume that the client is going to notice or understand the nuance in what we do.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 40:36

That's a great point. Even for like live events. I'll do a couple samples and then take a photo and send it to my clients and make sure we're on the same page. But I also had something similar happen to me. Someone had a custom, they wanted a custom quote and then when I shared the design draft, he just like didn't like it. And he was, he was upfront about it and he was also like understanding that basically his vision and the type of work that I do just didn't mesh well. And of course, it like hurt. It was. You know,'cause it's, it's hard anytime someone doesn't like your work. Right. But ultimately, at the end of the day, art's all subjective. And I didn't really take it personally because what he was looking for was just not what I was really good at. And so. I ended up refunding him, but keeping the design fee portion to cover, you know, whatever covered my time and the work that I had already spent, he was perfectly fine with that. It gave him a referral of someone I thought would be a better fit for what he was looking for. And I think, you know, it all, it, it worked out fine. Everything was fine. You know, my business didn't implode and I think it, we shared these stories because we want you to know that like. No matter how our business may or may not look from the outside. It's not perfect like there are things that happen that are out of our control. There are clients that like aren't over the moon with the stuff we do sometimes. That's just something we navigate as business owners, you know? The most important thing for me when dealing with unhappy clients is to follow your values and what feels right to you in terms of how you wanna treat them. Like, yes, you can, and you should review your contract and what it says in your contract. But since you are the owner of your business, you also get to decide, do you implement that to a T and be really strict about it, or do you wanna make some compromises and meet them halfway or you know, make some exceptions Like we, some of the examples that we've given, I think it's so Im important to be empathetic and remember that like we are all human, extenuating circumstances happen. We all have different priorities, and at the end of the day, like my goal is to make sure that like we all leave feeling good about the relationship that we have. Like that relationship is more important to me than like this specific transaction that's happening right now. And I don't want anybody to leave with like a bad taste in their mouth.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 42:45

Yeah, and I think the reminder too that you said before of like your business didn't implode. Like I think whenever these things do happen because they have happened, they will happen again. They're going to happen to you. They happen to us, is just remembering that like. It is not going to be the end of your business. Like I remember when that girl was upset with her wedding envelopes, like I truly thought that I was going to get my first one star review and that I'd never get a client again and nobody would wanna work with me. Literally none of that happened. She took her refund. She said that people loved her envelopes and I never heard from her again, and that's fine.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 43:24

Yeah.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 43:24

My business went on. No, I was gonna say I didn't follow up for a review, which is also fine, but like at the end of the day, these things are going to happen, but like, they're only going to destroy your business if you let them destroy your business. But like, they're really not that big of a deal. It's just, it's a little blip. And it really comes down to, like you said before, how you handle it and how you show up in that situation. And are you following your values and like maintaining your own integrity? So after listening to this episode, our challenge for you is where in your client process do you feel any sort of tension? Where are you getting the same questions or where are you getting confusion? Is there any like boundary pushing happening anywhere that is going to be your cue and that's gonna be your next like piece of your business to really refine. A well-run business doesn't mean saying yes to absolutely everything. It means knowing what you need in order to do your best work and making sure that you're just communicating that clearly, confidently, and consistently with your clients.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 44:26

That's a wrap for our 2025 Calligraphy Biz Corner Season. Thank you as always for tuning in. We love being a part of your business journey and being in your quarter. And don't forget that while our podcast is on break, you can still work with us. I have a number of on-demand courses, including my signature Pro Wedding Calligrapher course that helps calligraphers like you get started with your business and grow your business, all the way from setting the foundation for your business and your values to getting your business legally set up, pricing your products, and also figuring out how to get your first clients and then work with those clients. And I also have a signage course called Seating Chart Success that specializes in not only seating charts, but also other types of. Signage on various surfaces as well. And we also have our creatives pricing toolkit if you are feeling like you just need a little boost in your pricing specifically, all of those are available on demand@calligraphyceo.com.

alane_1_07-15-2025_131241: 45:22

And if this episode has you thinking I really need to tighten up my client process, then the good news is that you don't have to do it alone. Inside Flourish and Biz, which is my signature group coaching program, I help creative business owners like you build a client experience that actually matches the premium work that you deliver from building workflows to creating boundaries to. Making proposals that book and systems that give you space and room to breathe, doors are going to be open. Yeah, I think by the time this episode comes out, doors will be open for the fall cohort. So if this is something that's been on your radar, then now is the time to apply and join us this fall. We'll make sure that we link the application in the show notes. And then if you are looking for something that you can get started with right away, then the Calligrapher's client template bundle is gonna give you the exact scripts, emails, proposal, templates, and more that I use in my business to communicate clearly with my clients. Set those boundaries that we were talking about and really just guide your clients from your inquiry all the way through your offboarding. So you can grab that bundle at the link in the show notes as well.

shaochen_1_07-15-2025_111237: 46:28

We'll see you all in 2026.